The nub of the problem JW's have

[Totton Linnet]

By their own testimony

They are not saved, not born again, they have never become as Paul says new creatures in Christ Jesus when old things have passed away behold all things have become new.

They have never received the eternal life which Christ promised to those who believe on Him.

That's the crux, the nub of their problem.

Yet they feel that they are somehow worthy and able to come among God's people who have been saved, who are now living the eternal life of Christ inwardly and teach and lecture us about a more sure and excellent salvation than that which we have received....

They have not received it but they expect to teach us who have received it. They are those who Jesus said climb into the sheepfold by another way.

It is as I often have said to meshak. First YOU get saved, you attain to the new birth, you yourself receive eternal life. Then you can come and teach....not that you will.

As soon as you address yourselves to the matter in hand of being saved, of attaining to the new birth you realise just how IMPOSSIBLE these things are. It is a mountain the top of which reaches into the clouds, totally out of sight and unreachable, unclimbable.

It can't be got by discipleship, obeying commands, it can only be conferred upon us by God as a FREE GIFT. All we can do is receive it, that's it.

The deal to be struck is struck at the cross where we exchange our old life for His.

 

[patrick jane]

JWs are just plain wrong

 

[WeberHome]

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Were you to ask John Q and/or Jane Doe Watchtower Society missionary if they believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, I can assure you they would answer in the affirmative. However, what you may not know is that you and they would not be on the same page as the conversation would be talking about two very different processes that go by the same name. In other words: you would find yourself thrown off by semantic double speak.

The standard Christian understanding of Christ's resurrection is common throughout the gospels; viz: Jesus Christ died as a physical human being and he came back as a physical human being as per John 2:19-22.

But according to the Watchtower Society's way of seeing things; Christ' crucified body didn't return to life at all; and here's why.

In Watch Tower Society theology, an angel named Michael volunteered to come to the earth to die for humanity's sins. But in order to do so; he had to relinquish his angel existence to become a human being seeing as how in Society theology it is impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being and a human being simultaneously. Thus when Michael's so-called "life force" was transferred to flesh and given the name Jesus; he became a different species of life; viz: except for his so called "life force" Michael the angel ceased to exist.

But Michael's existence as a human being was only temporary. When his human body passed away on the cross, the Society claims that God transferred Michael's life force back into his angel corpse and restored him to his former spirit existence; thus leaving his human corpse in a permanent state of decease.

There is a really, really big hole in the Society's theology; and that's the dead man's corpse. In order to confirm that Jesus stayed dead, the Society is going to have produce his remains. A piece of evidence of that significance can't be allowed to just slip through a crack unnoticed as if it makes no difference.

● Acts 1:1-3 . .The first account, O Theophilus, I composed about all the things Jesus started both to do and to teach, until the day that he was taken up, after he had given commandment through holy spirit to the apostles whom he chose. To these also by many positive proofs he showed himself alive after he had suffered.

Did Jesus really show himself alive by many positive proofs after he had suffered? Not according to the Watch Tower Society. In their theology, Michael the angel showed not Jesus alive, but himself alive by means of a materialized body that resembled his alter ego in every way-- nail prints and spear wound to boot --because Michael's human body had to stay dead in order for him to regain his angel body.

There are some seriously fatal flaws in that theory.

1• The New Testament never even one time, on any occasion, nor under any circumstances, nor in any situation, either attests, alleges, alludes, or states that an angel named Michael appeared in Christ's human form cloaked in a materialized body.

2• Michael the angel never once identities himself as Michael the angel when allegedly appearing in a materialized body.

3• Passing one's self off in the guise of a dead man is the lowest form of identity theft imaginable. People do it all the time; and it's what I expect from human beings, but that is not the kind of behavior I have a right to expect from an arch angel.

4• A so-called materialized body is not a real person; it's an avatar.

5• Neither Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor James, nor Jude, ever even one single time in any of their writings correlate Jesus Christ with Michael the angel: not once. You'd think that if Michael the angel was Jesus Christ, that those men would have said so because that would be a really big deal.

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[WeberHome]

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The Society maintains that Jesus' crucified body has to stay dead so Michael can be an angel again. But that's not the only reason the Society gives for keeping Jesus' crucified body perpetually deceased.

Another explanation is given on page 237 of the April 15, 1963 issue of the Watchtower magazine; where it's stated:

"If Jesus were to take his body of flesh, blood, and bones to heaven and enjoy them there, what would this mean? It would mean that there would be no resurrection of the dead for anybody. Why not? Because Jesus would be taking his sacrifice off God's altar."

But the Bible says that were Jesus' crucified body still dead, then God would have no basis for letting people off.

● Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered up for the sake of our trespasses and was raised up for the sake of declaring us righteous.

● 1Cor 15:17 . .Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you are yet in your sins.

So then; it's not just Christ's crucifixion that rescues people from the wrath of God, but also his crucified body's recovery.

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[Totton Linnet]

JW certainly keep much of their doctrines secret from prospective disciple...it is another cultish trait

 

[Tambora]

You can blame the Reformed leader John Calvin for giving them ammo that Jesus was Michael.​

The twelfth chapter commenced, as we stated in yesterday’s Lecture, with the angel’s prediction as to the future state of the Church after the manifestation of Christ It was to be subject to many miseries, and hence this passage would soothe the sorrow of Daniel, and of all the pious, as he still promises safety to the Church through the help of God. Daniel therefore represented Michael as the guardian of the Church, and God had enjoined this duty upon Christ, as we learn from the 10th chapter of John, (ver. 28, 29.) As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people. He is called the mighty prince, because he naturally opposed the unconquered fortitude of God to those dangers to which the angel represents the Church to be subject. We well know the very slight causes for which terror often seizes our minds, and when we begin to tremble, nothing can calm our tumult and agitation. The angel then in treating of very grievous contests, and of the imminent danger of the Church, calls Michael the mighty prince. As if he had said, Michael should be the guardian and protector of the elect people, he should exercise immense power, and he alone without the slightest doubt should be sufficient for their protection. Christ confirms the same assertion, as we just; now saw, in the 10th chapter of John. He says all his elect were given him by his father, and none of them should perish, because his father was greater than all; no one, says he, shall pluck my sheep out of my hand. My father, who gave them me, is greater than all; meaning, God possesses infinite power, and displays it for the safety of those whom he has chosen before the creation of the world, and he has committed it to me, or has deposited it in my hands. We now perceive the reason of this epithet, which designates Michael as the great prince

- Calvin’s Commentaries on The Prophet Daniel, Vol. II, Baker reprint, vol. XIII, pp. 369, 370

 

[WeberHome]

JW certainly keep much of their doctrines secret from prospective disciples

It isn't all that unusual to encounter inexperienced Witnesses unaware the Society teaches that Christ's crucified body never recovered; but had it not, then Jesus could easily be proven a charlatan.

● John 2:19-21 . . Jesus said to them: Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Therefore the Jews said: This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days? But he was talking about the temple of his body.

By no stretch of the imagination could a rational person come to the conclusion that Jesus was speaking of Michael the arch angel's spirit body when he said "this" temple, No; Jesus was speaking of the temple standing right before them, and his followers knew exactly what he meant.

● John 2:22 . .When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this; and they believed the Scripture and the saying that Jesus said.

The Scripture they no doubt believed is located at Ps 16:8-10, which Peter said, at Acts 2:25-31, predicted the disposition of Christ's flesh; viz: his crucified body.

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