but it was not green anymore
Theology Club: The Olive Tree
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
but it was not green anymore
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Well, the axe had not yet been laid to the tree while Acts dragged on...
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I asked you:
To this you answered:
If not all of them were circumcised then does that mean that only some in the church at Rome were grafted into Israel?
Besides, why would anyone be grafted into Israel at the time when that nation was cast away and described as being dead?:
Were all those in the church at Rome circumcised and were they told to keep the law of Moses?
To this you answered:
If not all of them were circumcised then does that mean that only some in the church at Rome were grafted into Israel?
Besides, why would anyone be grafted into Israel at the time when that nation was cast away and described as being dead?:
"For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Ro.11:15).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
They were not cast away during Acts.
Romans, written at Acts 20, is looking ahead to their casting away.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
By the time the epistle to the Romans was written we read this about Israel:
"For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Ro.11:15).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yep! Things are changing in the book of Acts: the fall, diminishing and casting away
"the times they are a changin'"~B. Dylan
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:singer:
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For ethis is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For ethis is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27
I'm not sure where you are fitting that into the above - are you also an Almost 28er?
Lol, just bustin chops on that Almost bit; it tends to get too serious around here..
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Wrong, it was the casting aside of Israel which resulted in the reconciliation of the world:
"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?" (Ro.11:15; WNT).
And that happened before the end of the Acts period:
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).
The translation in the KJV at Romans 11:15 is contradicted by what is said at Romans 11:1 in the KJV. Both cannot be right so one of those verses must be translated in error. I quoted the correct translation at Romans 11:15 from the Weymouth New Testament.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
The mystery of the gospel was still hidden at that point.
Get him, sister heir.
Oh well............
I can't stand it when people obviously not up to the job, end up having to correct the KJV.
Romans 11:
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
15. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Have they fallen; never to get up again - God Forbid!
Rather; He's allowed them to fall - and that, only temporarily - that through their fall salvation might come to the Gentiles anyway, and directly to them, rather than through Israel, as it is written, that; at the same time, He might provoke them to jealousy to and through this temporary, direct Gentile salvation.
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31. Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Romans 11:
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
15. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Have they fallen; never to get up again - God Forbid!
Rather; He's allowed them to fall - and that, only temporarily - that through their fall salvation might come to the Gentiles anyway, and directly to them, rather than through Israel, as it is written, that; at the same time, He might provoke them to jealousy to and through this temporary, direct Gentile salvation.
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31. Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
As usual you change the subject and refused to answer my remarks to what you said here:
Wrong, it was the casting aside of Israel which resulted in the reconciliation of the world:
"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?" (Ro.11:15; WNT).
And the reconciliation of the world happened before the end of the Acts period:
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).
So Israel was cast aside before the ending of the Acts period.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
But were they not saved by the gospel of Christ, which was preached to the Jews before it was preached to everyone else?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
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heir
TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
heir
TOL Subscriber
Cut down on the Shugart. It's hazardous to sound doctrine.