• This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective. Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed. 1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team 2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.

The origin of the universe cannot be determined scientifically

Sherman

Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.
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Speaking of God as an 'it' is blasphemy. Be forewarned. Your welcome in the section is wearing thin.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
I'm not sure why you would limit someone who barely posts in the forum as it is.
This section isn't for people who deny young-earth creationism. If you question dogma strongly enough, you'll get bounced. Seen it happen many times.
 

Sherman

Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.
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To be clear it isn't for blasphemers.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Seems like a way to ask where the deity comes from?
No, it asks for admission of a greater creator. DNA is an instruction set for building a creature, implying a creator. To then ask for the instruction set for the creator says the creator was created himself, thus a greater creator is needed. To avoid the infinite regression, Christianity's creator is an uncreated being, because He creates everything but Himself.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
No, it asks for admission of a greater creator. DNA is an instruction set for building a creature, implying a creator. To then ask for the instruction set for the creator says the creator was created himself, thus a greater creator is needed. To avoid the infinite regression, Christianity's creator is an uncreated being, because He creates everything but Himself.
What about logic? Does God create logic? It's hard to imagine. It's hard to imagine logic not existing at any time.
 

Stripe

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"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."

There are plenty of things — all of them intangible nouns — that God did not invent. Love, truth and life among them.

That should be obvious. If you think otherwise, answer:
Was He alive when He created life?
Were things true before He created truth?
Did He love when He created love?

Also, time.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."

There are plenty of things — all of them intangible nouns — that God did not invent. Love, truth and life among them.

That should be obvious. If you think otherwise, answer:
Was He alive when He created life?
Were things true before He created truth?
Did He love when He created love?
Yeah this is all 'self-existence' stuff, which I believe. Logically, God existing implies these things simultaneously, like they all 'come into existence' at once, like 'a package deal', or, and this is what I believe, He is 'self-existent' and there never was any 'time' (see below) that God didn't exist, and so therefore was never any 'time' that logic and love and geometry didn't exist either. It's not as if God 'made' these things, but He is certainly responsible for them existing, 'by virtue of' His own (self-) existence.
Also, time.
I don't know about that. I don't conceive of time as like logic or geometry.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
What @Stripe said.

God is rational, and has always been rational, as far as I know. So logic has always existed.
What I was getting at was that using logic to argue for God's existence is invoking logic, which begs the question whether logic itself is a created thing. It's kind of assumed to exist on its own, when making a logical argument for God's existence.

idk. Could be making something out of nothing.
 

Derf

Well-known member
What about logic? Does God create logic? It's hard to imagine. It's hard to imagine logic not existing at any time.
In addition, (also as Stripe said), logic is a concept more than a thing. Like sin, which God did not create.
What I was getting at was that using logic to argue for God's existence is invoking logic, which begs the question whether logic itself is a created thing. It's kind of assumed to exist on its own, when making a logical argument for God's existence.

idk. Could be making something out of nothing.
Creation ex nihilo?

Using logic to understand God hardly equates to causing God's existence.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
I was just out shooting at ice going by in the river, one of my favorite things to do this time of year, and I decided to come back and take a second crack at this.

God is there now, ready to engage you in a "chat"

Your pride, your hubris, your willful dismissal of Him, the exercise of your free will - these stand between you and God. You will not see God until those are all stripped away, until you are brought low, until all that you love and cherish are taken from you. It's a fearful thing.
Yup.
 
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