These are NOT the same gospel

[Derf]

Daniel might be over my head tonight, but the rest certainly fits. Better than my idea, I'm thinking.

Daniel is still in the grave. Not over your head.

 

[glorydaz]

And Paul clearly states he speaking to gentiles, so I really don't see him speaking to the little flock.

But the little flock was not so little once God opened the door to the gentiles.

Acts 11:11 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

 

[glorydaz]

Daniel is still in the grave. Not over your head.

Ah, full of spit and vinegar tonight, I see.

 

[glorydaz]

All are saved by the death and resurrection of Christ. No one is saved any other way. Some may not have had full information about how it would work, but they are still saved the same way--because we aren't saved by our works, whether works of the law or works of any other kind. Abraham, nor Moses, nor David, nor Peter, nor Paul, nor Mary, were not saved by works. That's not to say the works were unimportant. And we are saved unto good works. The Israelites did not have to exhibit their works before they were led out of bondage, but God saved them from Egypt to become His people. Some refused, and died in the wilderness.

It makes no sense for God to save someone, and give them a place in His kingdom (earthly or heavenly) when they refuse to do what He says. But save them He does. So the place in the kingdom is reserved for those who, after being saved, submit to God in whatever way He asks them to. The place outside the kingdom is reserved for those, like Satan, who refuse to do His will.

It doesn't matter if we're saved by our works or not.....

God has nearly always...if not always....demanded that works be added to faith, except for this age of grace.

You don't have to like it, but it's true.

 

[Tambora]

Galatians 1:22-23 ESV
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they glorified God because of me.

 

[Idolater]

Galatians 1:22-23 ESV
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they glorified God because of me.

That's right, that's a good 'pick up' there on your part.

According to MAD (or they always now try to 're-brand' themselves not as a school of thought but only as an 'approach to reading the Bible', in a rhetorical attempt to establish their position as legitimized; even though it's just begging the question) these literal words express a misunderstanding and not the truth, because MAD does NOT believe that "the faith which once he (Paul) destroyed" is "Paul's Gospel" but is this quote-unquote "Kingdom Gospel" which is definitely NOT "Paul's Gospel", which is basically the 'DBR' . . . which Jesus preached to His then future Apostles the Twelve disciples during His earthly ministry but they did not understand or hear Him, and even after the events of the 'DBR' occurred they still didn't 'get it', not until Paul, really, taught them that the Old Testament and the New differ, and things that differ are not the same.

 

[glorydaz]

Galatians 1:22-23 ESV
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ.

So, you think churches were IN CHRIST like the individual members of the body who have been baptized by the Spirit into His body?

They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they glorified God because of me.

That faith which was in Jesus Christ. Of course the Kingdom believers had faith in their Messiah.

Still NOT the same gospel.

 

[Tambora]

So, you think churches were IN CHRIST like the individual members of the body who have been baptized by the Spirit into His body?

That faith which was in Jesus Christ. Of course the Kingdom believers had faith in their Messiah.

Still NOT the same gospel.

What was the faith Paul tried to destroy?
Because it is the same faith he now preaches, and God is glorified because Paul is now preaching it.

Galatians 1:22-23 ESV
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they glorified God because of me.

 

[Right Divider]

What was the faith Paul tried to destroy?
Because it is the same faith he now preaches, and God is glorified because Paul is now preaching it.

Galatians 1:22-23 ESV
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they glorified God because of me.

Don't let this HEARSAY fool you.

They ONLY HEARD that he was "now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy".

Gal 1:23 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:23) But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

Second hand information...

Note that Paul DID confirm ALL that came before. Paul was not a heretic.

 

[glorydaz]

What was the faith Paul tried to destroy?
Because it is the same faith he now preaches, and God is glorified because Paul is now preaching it.

Galatians 1:22-23 ESV
And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” And they glorified God because of me.

You can use the same verse over and over and it will still not say what you claim.

Saul was out to destroy all those who preached Christ as the Messiah.
Israel's faith was in their Messiah.

"They only were hearing it said...." They only knew Paul was preaching faith in that same name, Jesus Christ. Guilt by association.

 

[Tambora]

Don't let this HEARSAY fool you.

It's not hearsay, Paul said it. And he said that God was glorified.

The ONLY HEARD that he was "now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy".

Yep, they heard it and Paul did not say what they heard was wrong.
In fact he says they glorified God because of Paul.

Second hand information...

Most of scripture is second hand information.
Paul did not say the info was wrong.

Note that Paul DID confirm ALL that came before. Paul was not a heretic.

He was preaching the same faith he once tried to destroy.

 

[Right Divider]

It's not hearsay, Paul said it. And he said that God was glorified.

That's not what the scripture says.

Yep, they heard it and Paul did not say what they heard was wrong.
In fact he says they glorified God because of Paul.

So you are of the misguided belief that Paul received nothing new from the Lord?

Most of scripture is second hand information.

That scripture explicitly declares that what those people heard was second-hand.

Paul did not say the info was wrong.

Paul did not say the info was correct either.

He was preaching the same faith he once tried to destroy.

And then some! Paul preached the whole council of God. Including many things that were HIDDEN prior to God giving them to Paul.

Eph 3:7-9 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

[Tambora]

You can use the same verse over and over and it will still not say what you claim.

It will sink in to those that can read.

Paul was out to destroy all those who preached Christ as the Messiah.

That died and rose from the dead.
Death Burial Resurrection

Israel's faith was in their Messiah.

"They only were hearing it said...." They only knew Paul was preaching faith in that same name, Jesus Christ. Guilt by association.

Galatians details the faith Paul now preached.
And he begins the letter by saying he was preaching the same faith he once tried to destroy, and God was glorified because of it.

 

[Tambora]

That's not what the scripture says.

So you are of the misguided believe that Paul received nothing new from the Lord?

That scripture explicitly declares that what those people heard was second-hand.

Paul did not say the info was correct either.

And then some! Paul preached the whole council of God. Including many things that were HIDDEN prior to God giving it to Paul.

What was hid is that the anointed one (Messiah) would be crucified and defeat death by His resurrection.
No one had that figured out before it happened, for scripture tells us that if it had been known He would not have been crucified.
That is the mystery Paul found out about from the risen Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what he preached.

 

[Right Divider]

What was hid is that the anointed one (Messiah) would be crucified and defeat death by His resurrection.

Nope. The ONE body was also hidden.

No one had that figured out before it happened, for scripture tells us that if it had been known He would not have been crucified.

Indeed.

That is the mystery Paul found out about from the risen Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what he preached.

So God could not reveal this to the TWELVE apostles that He had already chosen?

 

[Tambora]

Nope. The ONE body was also hidden.

Indeed.

So God could not reveal this to the TWELVE apostles that He had already chosen?

Paul tells us what was hidden and why.

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 ESV
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[glorydaz]

That's not what the scripture says.

So you are of the misguided belief that Paul received nothing new from the Lord?

That scripture explicitly declares that what those people heard was second-hand.

Paul did not say the info was correct either.

And then some! Paul preached the whole council of God. Including many things that were HIDDEN prior to God giving them to Paul.

Excellent point, the whole counsel of God.

Following the Damascus Road experience, Paul was preaching Christ the Messiah, the Son of God, just like the others. He knew nothing else.

Ananias told Paul, "For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard." He had heard nothing about the gospel of grace at this time.

Acts 9:18-22 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

(And here we see where Tam is claiming Paul was teaching his gospel during this time.) But read it as it's written.

Acts 9 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests? But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me. 19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him. 21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.


Once God sent him to Asia for three years or whatever, the whole of the revealed word was given to Paul and he preached that from then on.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul tells us what was hidden and why.

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 ESV
But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

One of many... But nice try.

 

[glorydaz]

Galatians details the faith Paul now preached.
And he begins the letter by saying he was preaching the same faith he once tried to destroy, and God was glorified because of it.

Put up the scripture and let's see how you've managed to read into this one.

 

[glorydaz]

What was hid is that the anointed one (Messiah) would be crucified and defeat death by His resurrection.
No one had that figured out before it happened, for scripture tells us that if it had been known He would not have been crucified.
That is the mystery Paul found out about from the risen Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what he preached.

You're wrong. Paul is not talking about the resurrection at all. Paul is speaking of the spiritual wisdom that is given those of us who are saved by his gospel. Had they princes of this world known this hidden wisdom of God that Paul speaks of, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.

1 Cor. 2:5-8 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Read further and you'll see.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.