These are NOT the same gospel

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
Then by your own admission, the gospel of the kingdom is different from the gospel of the grace of God.

The gospel of the kingdom can and was preached WITHOUT the DBR.
The gospel of the grace of God CANNOT be preached WITHOUT the DBR.
OK ...
... The twelve continued to preach what Christ taught them on earth during His ministry to the circumcision. ...
He taught them the 'DBR'.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
That's cute.

If you really need me to show you again Jesus preaching the 'DBR' to His disciples, before the 'DBR', I will.

'DBR' = the Gospel of the grace of God. 1st Corinthians 15:3
Jesus was speaking for our sake. The apostles had no understanding of what Jesus said. It was hid from them.
Thus, they were not preaching the dbr., and they didn't even understand that the tomb was empty.

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

The pharisees were worried enough ....
Matt. 27:66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

Look here. The disciples didn't even believe it when told He had risen.

Mark 16:10-11
And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

So, please drop the idea that they were preaching the dbr when Jesus walked among us.
Even when they did preach the resurrection
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
It's no red herring.
Yes it is.

How can grace be preached without using the word grace?
No one would have recognized the promised Savior without the fruit He demonstrated, no matter what word title He claimed.
They knew it because of the fruit demonstrated, not because of a word used.

The same way Jesus taught and demonstrated He was Savior without Him using the word savior for Himself.
The same way you can teach and demonstrate geometry to your child without using the word geometry.
The same way you can see the Lord Jesus Christ in OT scriptures without the OT using the words "the Lord Jesus Christ".

It's not always about precise word use, it's about the message. Akin to the old proverbial statement "You're unable to see the forest because of the trees".
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Jesus, the 12, and Paul taught mercy and grace above law.

John 14:21

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Paul says he preached the gospel he once tried to destroy, which was that Jesus is the promised anointed one that would bring the whole world together.
You're playing fast and loose with the scripture there. What's up with that? Trying to mix oil and water again?

The gospel of the kingdom was an earthly one where Jesus Christ would sit on the throne of David.

Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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And the spotless sacrifice is offered by a priest of the order of Melchizedek, not of the order of Aaron.
Exactly.
Jesus was not of the lineage of Aaron, but of Judah.

And who is the father of many nations, Genesis 17:4&5
Right.
Abe, the father of those justified by faith without works, that looked for a city not of this earthly world.
Jesus told the Pharisees that it wasn't their earthly lineage to Abe He was looking for, and Jesus told Pilate His kingdom was not of this earthly world.


Galatians 3:17

The only ones who do are MAD.
This has shocked me more than anything they've said so far, that Jesus taught a gospel absent of grace.
God's grace due to man's failure is taught from Genesis to Revelation.
The DBR is all about God's grace.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Please document PAUL saying that (hint: he did not write that in any of his epistles).
Paul wrote about a NEW creature... the 12 did not.

Christ never taught the 12 about the body of Christ. That is Paul only.

When Christ sent the 12 to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, they did NOT know about the DBR.
How can what they preached (i.e., the gospel of the kingdom) be the gospel of the grace of God that cannot be preached without the DBR?

Some things the same and some things different.
Yep, the mysteries. They can't get away from the mysteries.

It's interesting, because when Paul first got saved, he immediately started preaching Jesus Christ the prophesied Messiah. Suddenly going from zealous of the law (overly zealous some would say) to being zealous for Jesus Christ. Naturally, he was preaching what he knew. Then, almost immediately, the Lord sent him off to the desert for three years where He could reveal the mysteries to Paul. What that man went through for over 20 years is amazing. I hear there is a plaque for the Apostle Paul at Mars Hill.

It's just such a shame that the churches today are primarily focused on a gospel that isn't even for them.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
... It's just such a shame that the churches today are primarily focused on a gospel that isn't even for them.
What are you talking about, can you provide examples?
LOL You blenderizers crack me up.
Oh come on Glory I didn't "blenderize" anything.

I think that you just have a theory (MAD) and when the evidence is presented which appears to conflict with it, you can't accept the evidence.
They can't show it because the blood had not yet been shed.
I can definitely show you Jesus teaching His disciples the 'DBR' before it happened.
Lots and lots of vain babbling going on, though, isn't there?
Again, I think you're saying this just because the (scriptural) evidence appears to conflict with MAD, and you can't accept it.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
No one would have recognized the promised Savior without the fruit He demonstrated, no matter what word title He claimed.
He didn't claim any title. The miracles were His "fruit".

They knew it because of the fruit demonstrated, not because of a word used.
Knew what?
The same way Jesus taught and demonstrated He was Savior without Him using the word savior for Himself.

Nice try, but you fail to give any scripture to prove what you say.
The same way you can teach and demonstrate geometry to your child without using the word geometry.
The same way you can see the Lord Jesus Christ in OT scriptures without the OT using the words "the Lord Jesus Christ".

It's not always about precise word use, it's about the message. Akin to the old proverbial statement "You're unable to see the forest because of the trees".
Yeah, you're unable to see the difference between what Jesus taught when He walked among us and what the ascended LORD revealed to Paul, so your analogy is self fulfilling.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I can definitely show you Jesus teaching His disciples the 'DBR' before it happened.
Luke 18:31-34 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Not absent of grace.
The teachings and deeds of Jesus either revealed grace or it didn't.
It did and you guys can't stand it.
The very fact that Jesus (God) became flesh to dwell among mankind, and died to atone for sin for mankind, and resurrected to defeat death for mankind has grace written all over it.
Cause not a single person ever deserved it, and that's what grace is ---- unmerited favor.


Undergirded by it. But the focus was that keeping the law was still required.
You can't undergird grace.
And the letter of the law never saved anyone.

I am leaving this thread, as I can't stand to watch another post saying that God taught that law saved instead of grace.
That sends shivers up my spine.
God taught His grace is what saves from cover to cover of the Bible, and Jesus would never go against that at any time ever.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The teachings and deeds of Jesus either revealed grace or it didn't.
It did and you guys can't stand it.
The very fact that Jesus (God) became flesh to dwell among mankind, and died to atone for sin for mankind, and resurrected to defeat death for mankind has grace written all over it.
Cause not a single person ever deserved it, and that's what grace is ---- unmerited favor.



You can't undergird grace.
And the letter of the law never saved anyone.

I am leaving this thread, as I can't stand to watch another post saying that God taught that law saved instead of grace.
That sends shivers up my spine.
God taught His grace is what saves from cover to cover of the Bible, and Jesus would never go against that at any time ever.
Fraud. No one is saying the law saves anyone.
Just because you refuse to admit that God's plan for Israel is different from that of the gentiles, you run like a scared rabbit.
I'm not surprised. You have been off track for quite some time now. Sad.
 
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