Tam, you Lioness, though I'll not regret my having stood up for my sisters, nevertheless my apology for what offence I obviously ended up causing you.
No offence intended, and none taken, by the way.
Theology Club: To the Jew First
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Tam, you Lioness, though I'll not regret my having stood up for my sisters, nevertheless my apology for what offence I obviously ended up causing you.
No offence intended, and none taken, by the way.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you agree that the Jews who lived under the law were saved apart from works?
Do you agree that Paul was not preaching the "gospel of the uncircumcision" in the synagogues of the Jews at Acts 13:26?
Obviously he was preaching to them the "gospel of the circumcision."
So we can understand that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone when they believed the "gospel of the circumcision."
This is so simple.
No offence taken.
And I'm glad you brought it all to a head. It needed to happen. :e4e:
And it has happened.
If we really want this forum to be badgering free, we must all heed the warning together.
So let's just study, shall we? :Wamba:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Gospel of uncircumcision has its roots in Abraham, before circumcision. There were Jews and Gentiles in the uncircumcision in Acts.
Gospel of circumcision has it roots in Abraham, after circumcision.
There were Jews and Gentiles in the circumcision in Acts.
heir
TOL Subscriber
:up:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
How could a circumcised Jew be in the uncircumcision in Acts?
It is called the "gospel of the circumcision" because it was to be taken and preached to the Jews. And it was called the "gospel of the uncircumcision" because it was to be preached to the Gentiles.
Do you agree that Paul was preaching the "gospel of the circumcision" in the synagogues of the Jews at Acts 13:26?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
No, Paul preached the gospel of uncircumcision in Acts 13 to both Jews and Greeks.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Where is your evidence of that?
If we look at what Paul preached in the synagogues there is absolutely no evidence that he ever preached the "gospel of the circumcision" there. Instead, this is what he preached there:
"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).
That was the same gospel which Paul continued to preach to the Jews:
"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ" (Acts17:2,30).
That is the same message that Apollos preached to the Jews:
"For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus is Christ" (Acts18:28).
That right there is at the very core of so many differences in understanding within Mid-Acts.
For passages like those two are the very core of the Acts 9:6 position, Acts 7:51, in light of Matt. 12:3-32, and until what such passages point to are not only properly understood, but continually adhered to, all sorts of differences in understanding can, and will arise.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Acts 13
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
In Galatians 2:7 a decision is made. "But contrariwise, when
they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed
unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter"
Paul was sent to the Gentiles with the "Grace Message," whereas,
Peter and the rest were sent to the circumcised (Jews) with the
"Kingdom Message." In the book of Acts, Paul was preaching to
the Jews about Christ and Him crucified and resurrected.
Peter and the rest would go to the Jews, preaching faith in Christ
combined with works. (Per, James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath
not works, is dead, being alone.") James was speaking to the Jews
who were under the "Kingdom Message."
Paul preached the "Grace Message" to the Gentiles. He was preaching,
Faith alone without works.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what James told those to whom received his epistle about how they are born of God:
" Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).
That matches exactly what John wrote here:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).
And that is exactly what Paul preached to the Jews in the synagogues:
"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ" (Acts 17:2-3).
The Jews who believed that message were born of God and saved the instant they believed it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Just quoting Scriptures proves nothing to back up your idea that when Paul preached to the Jews he preached the "gospel of the uncircumcision" to them instead of the "gospel of the circumcision."
What does that have to do with the post I wrote? Make your answer
simple. I'm a simple kind of guy. Did you even read my post?
Jerry S do you believe there were two messages being preached when
Paul and Peter walked the earth? The Grace Gospel and the Kingdom
Gospel?
Paul and Peter walked the earth? The Grace Gospel and the Kingdom
Gospel?
No answer Jerry S? That's okay, don't worry about it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course!
The gospel which was preached to the Gentiles is found at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and those who believed that gospel were saved when they believed it.
This is the message which Paul preached in the synagogues:
"Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ" (Acts 17:1-3).
The Jews who believed that truth were born of God:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).
Do you believe that, Grosnick?