Trolls and Attention Whores

[Town Heretic]

TH is typical of those that live by blind faith and New Age critical thought.

Translation: you have nothing new to add, so you're going to keep using these meaningless, unsupportable notions in a loop in order to have the last word so that you can claim some sort of victory...if only in the rough form of an attendance certificate...do you know Atheist Ph.D by any chance?

Anything requiring thinking out of the box is met with attack and righteous indignation

If the box contains reason and by righteous indignation you mean beating you about the place with a wry limb from the clever tree, sure. lain:

There is no substance in his entire post.

Which, were it true, would still surpass your black hole of a repetitive mess.

Unfortunately it is normal for the pseudo intellectual that parrots rather than understands.

:chuckle: You have no idea how funny that is...seriously, you don't appear to have an idea.

That is why a concept such as objective human perspective seems so absurd.

No, only your attempt to frame it.

The ones I feel bad for are the students in universities that are trapped by this growing dogmatic mindset and forced to sacrifice understanding for grades.

Translation: you didn't get into a good school, assuming you got into one at all, and haven't a clue on point. You wouldn't survive a week in Boston...heck, I'd bet good money that Duke would eat you alive and spit out your intellectual marrow for sport. See how easy this sort of thing is?

As usual; not a clue.

If only you knew where to aim that...lain:

 

[chrysostom]

Said the man who started this. Sniff.

Beam. Eye. Remove it! :squint:

AMR

you could at least mention my name

it is shorter than Ask Mr. Religion

 

[Nick_A]

Town Heretic

Translation: you have nothing new to add, so you're going to keep using these meaningless, unsupportable notions in a loop in order to have the last word so that you can claim some sort of victory...if only in the rough form of an attendance certificate...do you know Atheist Ph.D by any chance?

This is typical TH but you just won't see it. You are so into winning and losing, the idea of understanding is secondary. You are psychologically obligated to defend your preconceptions: to "win."

"But for religious feeling to emanate from the spirit of truth, one should be absolutely prepared to abandon one's religion, even if that should mean losing all motive for living, if it should turn out to be anything other than the truth." Simone Weil, Need for Roots, Routledge, 2003. page 247

Your religion is your acquired preconceptions that create your Cave perspective. Since truth is secondary, you cannot abandon them for the sake of truth.

If the box contains reason and by righteous indignation you mean beating you about the place with a wry limb from the clever tree, sure.

Attack with no substance. The limb is a twig dropped from the tree of self deception.

Which, were it true, would still surpass your black hole of a repetitive mess.

You excuse your own failings by claiming another's as worse rather than trying to come to grips with your own self deception.

You have no idea how funny that is...seriously, you don't appear to have an idea.

No. the sad part is that you have no idea how true it is.

No, only your attempt to frame it.

I made no attempt to frame it. I suggested that your devotion to New Age critical thinking has made it impossible for you to have any idea of what it may mean. I've been proven right.

Translation: you didn't get into a good school, assuming you got into one at all, and haven't a clue on point. You wouldn't survive a week in Boston...heck, I'd bet good money that Duke would eat you alive and spit out your intellectual marrow for sport. See how easy this sort of thing is?

You appreciate education as a meaningless battle of egos. My encounters with contemporary education has ended in a draw. Where as a whole it wished to pervert me, I succeeded in giving it gray hairs. However recently I attended a very meaningful colloquy in Boston College and the Ph.Ds were quite nice and understood something.

 

[Town Heretic]

This is typical TH but you just won't see it.

Either you need a comma in there or thanks.

You are so into winning and losing, the idea of understanding is secondary.

Nah. Court rooms are for winning arguments. I never labored under the impression that it would be possible to impress upon you an objective fact that differed from your desire. Anyone attempting that would likely make Norman Vincent Peale read like Tolstoy.

You are psychologically obligated to defend your preconceptions: to "win."

If by preconceptions you mean conclusions drawn from a rigorous, critical examination, then yes. And I'm obligated in the sense that any man with any is. :think:

"But for religious feeling to emanate from the spirit of truth, one should be absolutely prepared to abandon one's religion, even if that should mean losing all motive for living, if it should turn out to be anything other than the truth." Simone Weil, Need for Roots, Routledge, 2003. page 247

Oh, good. I was terribly afraid you'd manage more than a paragraph or so without raising the dead. I am as relieved of that worry now as you appear to be of a rational counter. :thumb:

Your religion is your acquired preconceptions that create your Cave perspective. Since truth is secondary, you cannot abandon them for the sake of truth.

If you believe that you know, literally, nothing about my religion. So it's on par with everything else for you.

Attack with no substance. The limb is a twig dropped from the tree of self deception.

People say crazy things like that when they lose enough blood. You should rest and have a juice.

You excuse your own failings by claiming another's as worse rather than trying to come to grips with your own self deception.

Ah, the ever popular "I know you are but what am I" gambit. Scintillating...you must be a Yale man.

You have no idea how funny that is...seriously, you don't appear to have an idea.​

No. the sad part is that you have no idea how true it is.

Oh, I'm fairly sure we all do. lain:

I made no attempt to frame it.

Again, you're making par, though without any sand. I've been at the golf channel again.

I suggested that your devotion to New Age critical thinking has made it impossible for you to have any idea of what it may mean. I've been proven right.

In order: a meaningless catch phrase previously noted and, to the gallery, I believe I called his practice on the latter. I feel positively Ruthian.

You appreciate education as a meaningless battle of egos.

If you had a better one you wouldn't say that. oly:

My encounters with contemporary education has ended in a draw.

Does anyone want to tell him why that sentence is impossibly funny? I don't have the heart to do it. :nono:

Where as a whole it wished to pervert me, I succeeded in giving it gray hairs.

The stress of dealing with irrationality can do that to people.

However recently I attended a very meaningful colloquy in Boston College and the Ph.Ds were quite nice and understood something.

Did you go and sit in Harvard Square later? And is that on your resume as well? You sly fox you.

 

[Nick_A]

TH, you have this gift of saying nothing with flamboyance so it appears like something. That's the lawyer in you.

If by preconceptions you mean conclusions drawn from a rigorous, critical examination, then yes. And I'm obligated in the sense that any man with any is.

Yes, this is how you've acquired your preconceptions that assure continual cave life.

If you believe that you know, literally, nothing about my religion. So it's on par with everything else for you.

I just know the results of your religious efforts that have been written here.

People say crazy things like that when they lose enough blood. You should rest and have a juice.

Scotch is better.

In order: a meaningless catch phrase previously noted and, to the gallery, I believe I called his practice on the latter. I feel positively Ruthian.

OK, so you don't know what objective human perspective is and how to acquire it. Only a minority do and even less would make the efforts to learn.

But, in all fairness I'll tell you what is necessary to acquire an objective human perspective and you can see both how far you are from it and that this famous education of yours by definition is incapable of it. Plato describes a person of education in the real meaning of the word. Such a person becomes capable of acquiring objective human perspective.

From book 4 of Plato's Republic:

.........But in reality justice was such as we were describing, being concerned however, not with the outward man, but with the inward, which is the true self and concernment of man: for the just man does not permit the several elements within him to interfere with one another, or any of them to do the work of others, --he sets in order his own inner life, and is his own master and his own law, and at peace with himself; and when he has bound together the three principles within him, which may be compared to the higher, lower, and middle notes of the scale, and the intermediate intervals --when he has bound all these together, and is no longer many, but has become one entirely temperate and perfectly adjusted nature, then he proceeds to act, if he has to act, whether in a matter of property, or in the treatment of the body, or in some affair of politics or private business; always thinking and calling that which preserves and co-operates with this harmonious condition, just and good action, and the knowledge which presides over it, wisdom, and that which at any time impairs this condition, he will call unjust action, and the opinion which presides over it ignorance......

I remember reading an account of a party being given by a wealthy woman for her son leaving for college. Certain highly educated friends attended.

One Man wrote in the guest book: Remember that whatever else happens, one and one will always equal two. Another man of even greater education wrote: Remember that whatever else happens, one and one will never equal two.

The stress of dealing with irrationality can do that to people.

Yes but I am not that good at it. Simone was far better than me, Socrates better than Simone, and Jesus better than Socrates for earning the wrath of the educated.

 

[Town Heretic]

TH, you have this gift of saying nothing with flamboyance so it appears like something. That's the lawyer in you.

Could be...or it could be you're like one of those cargo cult people staring at an airplane. :shocked:

Yes, this is how you've acquired your preconceptions that assure continual cave life.

Caves for some, gutters for many, or the surface for people of your inclination. But let's not turn this into a geography lesson. There be dragons if you get far enough into it, you know. Someone might get et...tu.

OK, so you don't know what objective human perspective is and how to acquire it.

I wouldn't say that--but I see that you would and with your usual evidentiary threshold...which is to say you want or need to believe it. But in any event I was talking about your older bit of nonsense, the mythical new age baloney sans bread.

Only a minority do and even less would make the efforts to learn.

It helps if you know what I was actually talking about. Or what you were, for that matter. lain:

But, in all fairness

Were you wearing a diaper when you wrote that. :think: I hope so for your sake, or whoever does your laundry.

From book 4 of Plato's Republic:

I'm waiting on the movie, but thanks anyway. Do you live in a graveyard or is that only where you go to think...well, cut and paste then. oly:

I remember reading an account of a party being given by a wealthy woman for her son leaving for college. Certain highly educated friends attended. One Man wrote in the guest book: Remember that whatever else happens, one and one will always equal two. Another man of even greater education wrote: Remember that whatever else happens, one and one will never equal two.

Here's another: one fellow said to another fellow, "Do you know how to get down from a duck?"

And the second fellow answered, "Well, pull the feathers I suppose."

So the first fellow shot himself. True story.

Yes but I am not that good at it. Simone was far better than me, Socrates better than Simone, and Jesus better than Socrates for earning the wrath of the educated.

You know who else was good at it? Hitler. So there goes that theory.

 

[Nick_A]

TH

Could be...or it could be you're like one of those cargo cult people staring at an airplane.

Or it could be I'm dealing with a chicken that believes itself an eagle.

Caves for some, gutters for many, or the surface for people of your inclination. But let's not turn this into a geography lesson. There be dragons if you get far enough into it, you know. Someone might get et...tu.

There are many reasons to justify cave life. Take your pick.

I wouldn't say that--but I see that you would and with your usual evidentiary threshold...which is to say you want or need to believe it. But in any event I was talking about your older bit of nonsense, the mythical new age baloney sans bread.

Yes that's it in a nutshell. The better the proponent of New Age critical thinking, the more one moves around in Plato's cave producing a variety of expressions coming from the cave.

Where New Age critical thinking is a tool to justify our hypocrisy Plato appreciated the importance of freedom from being captive to contradiction for the sake of a realistic human perspective. Reason (nous) had to lead to objective "value" or be meaningless. The essential foundation is what is unimportant for you: admitting your ignorance.

It helps if you know what I was actually talking about. Or what you were, for that matter.

All you've been talking about consists of complaints about me. Hopefully you will write something substantive.

I'm waiting on the movie, but thanks anyway. Do you live in a graveyard or is that only where you go to think...well, cut and paste then.

You don't understand that excerpt. Don't feel bad; contemporary education doesn't understand it either and rather prefers New Age critical thinking after having instilled its own preconceptions and biases in the young.

Here's another: one fellow said to another fellow, "Do you know how to get down from a duck?"

And the second fellow answered, "Well, pull the feathers I suppose."

So the first fellow shot himself. True story.

Logical. After a reply like that, I can see why he shot himself. How much can one take before cracking?

You know who else was good at it? Hitler. So there goes that theory.

No. Hitler earned wrath through fear. Jesus earned wrath because those feeling superior found his influence an annoyance to orderly cave life. What is more annoying than an alarm clock

So the bottom line is that you believe your critical thinking somehow leads to understanding and Socrates suggests that understanding comes from the balanced human being so one becomes capable of practicing what they preach by "feeling" its worth.

The balanced man has the potential for an objective human perspective. Critical thinking on its own must degrade into new Age critical thinking normal for our imbalance that defends our hypocrisy so as to make our life tolerable.

 

[Town Heretic]

Or it could be I'm dealing with a chicken that believes itself an eagle.

Or maybe you shouldn't drink NyQuil recreationally. :idunno:

Yes that's it in a nutshell.

You should consider this for a motto.

Where New Age critical thinking is a tool to justify our hypocrisy Plato appreciated the importance of freedom from being captive to contradiction for the sake of a realistic human perspective.

So Plato battled it...more like really, really old age not so critical thinking then.

Reason (nous) had to lead to objective "value" or be meaningless.

See, when you use a word like nous and then routinely blow basic composition it smacks of the old Zerox and fails to make what would seem to be the desired impression...

The essential foundation is what is unimportant for you: admitting your ignorance.

How about if I start with recognizing yours and we see how it goes.

All you've been talking about consists of complaints about me.

Nah, I don't know you. I'm beating the sand out of the way you think though...or fail to sufficiently.

Hopefully you will write something substantive.

How would you recognize it? :think:

Been there/ tried that. It was a waste of time. I stopped waiting on you to open that door the minute I realized you didn't know what a door was. Now I'm hanging out with you, knocking a few over the fence and waiting for you to crowd the plate again (yeah, I switched to the MLB).

You don't understand that excerpt.

:chuckle: Now you're claiming victory even before the inquiry. I can't wait to see how you better this one.

Don't feel bad;

Superman's enemy feels bad...something like that.

No. Hitler earned wrath through fear.

He earned the condemnation of intellectuals by using the appearance of their pursuits for perverted ends and by warping the point and means of science and intellectually honest pursuit. Fear was how he subjugated his opposition, like some insects paralyze in prelude to the kill.

Jesus earned wrath because those feeling superior found his influence an annoyance to orderly cave life. What is more annoying than an alarm clock

Christ had the enmity of the carnally minded and the present opposition of forces beyond the human expression. Don't reduce his nature or life to a parallel with Socrates...or if you do understand that it speaks to your want of education on an entirely new plain.

So the bottom line is that you believe your critical thinking somehow leads to understanding and Socrates suggests that understanding comes from the balanced human being so one becomes capable of practicing what they preach by "feeling" its worth.

Critical thinking is how Socrates became Socrates and one of the reasons why you are unlikely to.

The balanced man has the potential for an objective human perspective.

I'm very much concerned with your balance. lain:

Critical thinking on its own must degrade into new Age critical thinking

Then it can hardly be new age anything, since it must always have done so and it has been around for a very long time...quick, cobble something else, remake your new age dictionary. oly:

normal for our imbalance that defends our hypocrisy so as to make our life tolerable.

You got in trouble again. Simplify. Simplify. :thumb:

 

[Nang]

I'm very much concerned with your balance.

Why . . . would you bother to be concerned, when there is no semblance of any intellectual, moral; or genuine emotional balance produced from the postings of this person?

IOW''s . . . what is your interest in this vacuous non-person?

He is an imbalanced bore and thus your interactions with this imbalanced bore, prove to be imbalanced on the side of boring, and are so far, boring and leading NOWHERE!

Why are you wasting your time and talents upon such?


Nang

 

[Nick_A]

Why . . . would you bother to be concerned, when there is no semblance of any intellectual, moral; or genuine emotional balance produced from the postings of this person?

IOW''s . . . what is your interest in this vacuous non-person?

He is an imbalanced bore and thus your interactions with this imbalanced bore, prove to be imbalanced on the side of boring, and are so far, boring and leading NOWHERE!

Why are you wasting your time and talents upon such?


Nang

Hey Myrtle. We gotst a real live expoit here. Probably has degrees. Bring the camera

 

[Town Heretic]

Why . . . would you bother to be concerned, when there is no semblance of any intellectual, moral; or genuine emotional balance produced from the postings of this person?

IOW''s . . . what is your interest in this vacuous non-person?

People love monkey cages at a zoo. Can't get enough of them. Now most of these people standing around watching have seen a monkey. It's not like those monkeys are going to suddenly break into song and dance, or tell a joke, or ask for a typewriter. But there the crowd stands, staring at the monkeys in their cages.

I suspect it makes them feel better about the size of their own. :think:

Or maybe they're just waiting on another attraction to open.

 

[Nang]

People love monkey cages at a zoo. Can't get enough of them. Now most of these people standing around watching have seen a monkey. It's not like those monkeys are going to suddenly break into song and dance, or tell a joke, or ask for a typewriter. But there the crowd stands, staring at the monkeys in their cages.

I suspect it makes them feel better about the size of their own. :think:

Or maybe they're just waiting on another attraction to open.

Hmmph . . .

Such creatures, subjected to too much crowd observation, are known to begin flinging elements that quickly bring humiliations of a crass nature upon all their onlookers, whether the onlookers are deserving of such insults, or not.

And it seems to matter not a whit whether the "flingers," or their potential targets, are credentialed or not.

Nang

 

[Town Heretic]

Hmmph . . .

Such creatures, subjected to too much crowd observation, are known to begin flinging elements that quickly bring humiliations of a crass nature upon all their onlookers, whether the onlookers are deserving of such insults, or not.

And it seems to matter not a whit whether the "flingers," or their potential targets, are credentialed or not.

And that, children, is why NASCAR will always draw.

 

[Nick_A]

TH

So Plato battled it...more like really, really old age not so critical thinking then.

Of course. New Age critical thinking began with the creation of the first "expert." It has been slowly growing in stature ever since as technological society moves deeper into the cave.

See, when you use a word like nous and then routinely blow basic composition it smacks of the old Zerox and fails to make what would seem to be the desired impression...

In other words you don't know why Critical thinking must devolve into New Age critical thinking.

How about if I start with recognizing yours and we see how it goes.

Fine with me. I already admit it.

Nah, I don't know you. I'm beating the sand out of the way you think though...or fail to sufficiently.

A fine example of new Age critical thought.

How would you recognize it?

It would be revealed as an exception.

Been there/ tried that. It was a waste of time. I stopped waiting on you to open that door the minute I realized you didn't know what a door was. Now I'm hanging out with you, knocking a few over the fence and waiting for you to crowd the plate again (yeah, I switched to the MLB).

What is the most substantive idea you've expressed?

He earned the condemnation of intellectuals by using the appearance of their pursuits for perverted ends and by warping the point and means of science and intellectually honest pursuit. Fear was how he subjugated his opposition, like some insects paralyze in prelude to the kill.

So Hitler used New Age critical thinking to justify his beliefs. The intellectuals condemn in accordance with their version of New Age critical thought but look the other way in fear.. The result is that nothing is understood so everything repeats including genocides normal for cave life.

Christ had the enmity of the carnally minded and the present opposition of forces beyond the human expression. Don't reduce his nature or life to a parallel with Socrates...or if you do understand that it speaks to your want of education on an entirely new plain.

The origin of Socrates was at a lesser level than Jesus which is not to say that Socrates didn't understand the human condition. Jesus just actualized the solution of a perennial condition which is why it became known as Christianity.

Critical thinking is how Socrates became Socrates and one of the reasons why you are unlikely to.

Your obsession with New Age critical thinking at the expense of inner empiricism also denies you Socrates' experience of an objective human perspective.

You got in trouble again. Simplify. Simplify.

If you had the courage to admit your hypocrisy you would not be so much a slave to New Age critical thinking. This slavery is primarily due to the normal condition of a person lacking real education. Don't feel bad. It is the lawful habitual result of the fall of Man.

 

[Nick_A]

These guys seem like rejects from Richard Dawkins site. Typical puffed up egos

I'm gonna make my next post while naked. That'll fix em. I'll also pass out banannas and tell them what they should do with them.

Cave life or cage life? I wonder if they know the difference is just recognition of bars.

 

[Town Heretic]

[made up nonsense phrase]began with the creation of the first "expert." It has been slowly growing in stature ever since as technological society moves deeper into the cave.

A new motto for you then, if you can't reconcile it, say something equally preposterous. :thumb:

What is the most substantive idea you've expressed?

Hah, victory! lain: Just getting the jump on the only reason you asked that.

The intellectuals condemn in accordance with their version of [made up nonsense] but look the other way in fear..

Seriously, go to school...even if it's only wood shop to take that chip off your shoulder. :chew: No, the other kind.

These guys seem like rejects from Richard Dawkins site. Typical puffed up egos

Said the fellow inferring his own humility to himself. lain:

I'm gonna make my next post while naked.

You needn't bother. You're exposed enough as it is.

That'll fix em. I'll also pass out banannas and tell them what they should do with them.

Don't take food off your table on my account.

Cave life or cage life? I wonder if they know the difference is just recognition of bars.

If there's one thing I'm growing to suspect more by the moment it's your familiarity with bars. :cheers:

How many of my ideas do you plan on doing a bad job of lifting anyway and shouldn't you wait until I'm dead? :chuckle:

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Of course. New Age critical thinking began with the creation of the first "expert." It has been slowly growing in stature ever since as technological society moves deeper into the cave.

I keep asking, but have not yet seen you define exactly what you mean by "New Age critical thinking". If it is the moonbeam ideology of the likes of Freelight, then I am very confident you are lobbing a claim against TH that cannot stand.

Define the phrase, please.

AMR

 

[Memento Mori]

I keep asking, but have not yet seen you define exactly what you mean by "New Age critical thinking". If it is the moonbeam ideology of the likes of Freelight, then I am very confident you are lobbing a claim against TH that cannot stand.

Define the phrase, please.

AMR

Neo-Critical Thinking - A logical pattern of stringing together thought in such a way as to counter an argument using well found evidence and support specifically against N/A. Ant. - Truthiness

 

[chrysostom]

critical thinking

is there any other kind?

 

[Nick_A]

The essential difference between critical thinking and New Age critical thinking is that where critical thinking is dedicated to truth and freedom from preconceptions, New Age critical thinking is the use of logic in the attempt to validate preconceptions.

It was the wrong situation for discussing this distinction so I will abandon it. I'll just end it on my part with an excerpt from Jacob Needleman's "A Sense of the Cosmos" chapter 1 part 8. For those having followed this discussion, take from it what you will.

..................At first point the comparison of the universe to a teaching can begin to help us. To be literal-minded about what is sacred means, first of all, to trust one's first impressions, one's first mental associations. The presumption in this is enormous. When I take things literally I am presuming to be so in contact with myself, so whole in my power of response that I can instantly receive what is being communicated. My subsequent thought may become quite intricate and sophisticated, as it often becomes among scientists and biblical scholars, but the fact remains that all my complex and ingenious interpretations are resting on one merely split second of very partial receptivity. Have I ever directly observed the way thought influences perception and the way emotional associations influence thought? Can I discriminate between the deeper and more shallow reception of an idea or an impression? If I do not know myself in this direct way then I do not know the instrument by which data from the world are received by men, and then what can I possibly know about the universe? Certainly this is part of the reason why meditation (or contemplation) understood as the work of directly studying one's mind and feelings, was never separated from the study of nature in the ancient traditions.

There is nothing "mystical" about this. The literal mind is a mind out of contact with the whole human organism, a partial mind which trusts itself in its isolation from the very functions which make possible a fuller receptivity to reality. Quite as though I were in a laboratory equipped with numerous refined instruments, but chose instead to examine everything with a cheep pocket glass.

The literal mind is both wrongly active and wrongly passive, both violent and servile. By using the former word, I wish to say that it is a hasty mind, compelled by fear or craving to affirm its own habits and associations. Such a mind, which believes things are as the appear to it, is an aspect of what is known as the ego in the traditional teachings. This ego is constantly hunting for ways to affirm itself; to persuade the man that he is the ego.

A man may be the slave of the literal mind and yet be what the world calls a "poet." But such a poet still weaves his symbols and interpretations around the perceptions of the literal mind. The sustained perception of objective meaning is, I believe, a very much rarer thing than we suppose. It requires a constant access to clear emotional intelligence, whereas much of what we call poetry is the imposition of subjective feelings upon a literal-minded perception of the world. Thus, both the universe and sacred writing are twisted by "interpretation," whether literal or so called "metaphoric." So I hope the reader will not take what I am saying about the literal mind of modern science to be an endorsement of the "poetic" approach to reality.

All religious devolution is as a result of the literal mind being out of contact with the whole human organism. It is the source of our hypocrisy. Socrates of course understood it.

It is obvious people having participated here with righteous indignation prefer to glorify the literal mind without the humility to experience what it deprives a person of.

The Bible and especially the New Testament is written as it is to avoid the premature classifications normal for the literal mind.

There is no sense fighting city hall. People wish to glorify the literal mind as a means for self justification without the humility to be open to what is lost by this commitment . It is the modern way. I hope it serves your purpose.