Ukraine Crisis

H

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
SKC said:
Well here's the thing. Since 2014 (when Crimea was annexed) the following countries to the West of Russia could have avoided NATO, and formed their own defense alliance against Russian invasion (knowing the history of the Russian bear): Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Ukraine. But even the Czech Republic and Slovenia could have joined them. Belarus would remain an ally of Russia, but Russia would not be going up against such a powerful alliance.
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Do you think they have the wherewithal to form any kind of alliance?
Do you think it would be as powerful as NATO ?

There would be no war had Putin not made war.
 
S

SKC

Member
Hoping said:
Do you think they have the wherewithal to form any kind of alliance? Do you think it would be as powerful as NATO ? There would be no war had Putin not made war.
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Yes. Eleven countries within Europe would have had the wherewithal -- at the very least -- to set up a line of defense (a military barrier) all along the Western border of Russia. They would not need to be as powerful as NATO (and the power of NATO is questionable). Now had the Obama administration handled Russia as it should have (a long time ago), Russia would not have invaded Crimea (2014), therefore the invasion of Ukraine would also have been ruled out at that time. Russia had already invaded Cechnya (1994) and Georgia (2008), so a proper plan for stopping Russian expansion should have been in place. Instead the West was asleep at the wheel.
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Hoping said:
... There would be no war had Putin not made war.
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SKC said:
... a proper plan for stopping Russian expansion should have been in place. Instead the West was asleep at the wheel.
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Si vis pacem parabellum doesn't register with Hoping. He thinks preparing for war is evil. Even though, as you're pointing out, it would have prevented war in this case.

It's not the same as saying the West is responsible for Putin the Great Fool invading though. It is a reason to scrutinize our foreign policy though. Any politician who isn't a preventive war hawk should be suspect.

And btw preventive war hawks invaded Iraq.
 
H

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
SKC said:
Yes. Eleven countries within Europe would have had the wherewithal -- at the very least -- to set up a line of defense (a military barrier) all along the Western border of Russia. They would not need to be as powerful as NATO (and the power of NATO is questionable).
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I can't agree.
SKC said:
Now had the Obama administration handled Russia as it should have (a long time ago), Russia would not have invaded Crimea (2014), therefore the invasion of Ukraine would also have been ruled out at that time.
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That I can agree with.
SKC said:
Russia had already invaded Cechnya (1994) and Georgia (2008), so a proper plan for stopping Russian expansion should have been in place. Instead the West was asleep at the wheel.
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Perhaps, but in 1994, pres. Clinton's US was sending troops to the middle East and the war in former Yugoslavia was raging.
Pro-abortion was being slowly eased into the lime-light , and Ebola was a "thing" as was ISIS.
In 2014, the problems in pres. Obama's US were mostly internal, with the cops versus blacks being a huge thing, and the homo-sexual agenda gaining steam.
The US alone was never going to force Russia to do anything.
And the threat to the rest of Europe seemed to them very remote.
The world looks at the US for leadership but there is no leadership.
The USA is too busy legitimizing sin to look out for the "other guy".
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
SKC said:
Why don't you go back to see the shenanigans by Western leaders even before Putin attacked Ukraine. That's where the answer lies. Here's the reality from back in September 2022 when the West opposed a peaceful settlement:

“Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”

The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.
responsiblestatecraft.org

Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine? - Responsible Statecraft

A recent piece in Foreign Affairs revealed that Kyiv and Moscow may have had a tentative deal to end the war all the way back in April.
responsiblestatecraft.org responsiblestatecraft.org

Did you get that? "The West isn't ready for the war to end". Imagine wanting to keep a war going rather than establish peace? Do you see how sick that was? And who says Putin cannot be negotiated with? Did anyone even try to sit down with him?
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Seriously, you're quoting from Pravda?!

Eh, not surprised...
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Jefferson said:
What's strange about it?

Such as?
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Well, pretty much everything. Just lame as anything also...

Was a straightforward question Jefferson. Do you have anything against women having equal rights? Ya know, those that were denied them in the patriarchal past such as the vote etc.
 
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