Undocumented immigrants crowd California DMV offices for new licenses

[The Berean]

:sigh:

My home state continues to lose its mind. :nono:

Undocumented immigrants crowd California DMV offices for new licenses

Thousands of immigrants in the country illegally on Friday took a big step into California life -- and its clogged freeway commutes -- by completing an American rite of passage: waiting in line at the DMV.

The first business day of 2015 was also the first time in more than two decades that they could sign up for a driver's license in this state. California is now the 10th state, and by far the largest, to permit immigrants living in the country illegally to drive.

 

[rocketman]

I cannot tell you how happy i will be when I am able to retire & leave this jacked up state...the only good thing in California is the weather they can have the rest. :down:

 

[Morpheus]

Does anyone actually believe that they weren't already driving, just without licenses? At least with licenses they can get insurance, and the state has some record of their existence and general location. Not to speak of the revenue generated from license fees.

 

[The Berean]

According to the article many were not driving out of fear of being pulled over. I wonder what percentage of illegal immigrants drive without a license?

I am a child of legal immigrants so this immigration issue is very personal to me especially since the vast majority of the illegal immigrants are from Mexico (my ancestral homeland). However I disapprove of illegal immigration for the following reasons:

1) The continued influx of illegal immigrants will eventually cause a growing resentment severe backlash from native born Americans. This will lead to more and more "hate" crimes. At some point in time someone will come to political power and use the illegal immigrants as a scapegoats for people's problems. Shoot, my father believes that one day all the illegal immigrants will be rounded up forcibly and deported and if that happens it will be an ugly scene.

There is currently a case in Philadelphia where a Honduran woman has moved into a church so avoid being deported. She was given a deportation order 10 years ago. Since then she has married and had two children.

Facing Deportation, Undocumented Immigrant Takes Sanctuary in Philly Church

Reading the comment section you can see the obvious frustration and anger from many people over cases like this. It doesn't help that this woman after being in the US for 10 years still doesn't speak any English. The woman keeps saying that she doesn't want to be separated from her family by being sent back to Honuras. One person commented why doesn't the entire family move to Honduras? Cases like this will only fuel this frustration and anger among native born Americans.

This woman and her family have made a youtube video to appeal to Obama directly.

.

2) Illegal immigrants have few if any worker rights. Businesses that hire them can underpay them and fire them almost at will. Illegal immigrants have little legal recourse if they are abused or exploited. Legal immigrants would have full worker rights and legal recourse against abuse and exploitation.

3) Illegal immigration floods the job market and undercuts salaries. Labor activist Cesar Chavez (strong pro union and leftist to the core) was against illegal immigration as he knew it would undercut his union's fight for increased pay and benefit from the deep pocketed politically connected farmers.

My father moved to the US in 1961 under the Bracero Program. This program was an agreement between the US and Mexican governments to allow Mexican laborers to enter the US legally and work the farms. This program was active from 1946-64. Every Mexican worker was given documentation allowing them to enter the US. Why a similar program hasn't been considered today is a mystery.

 

[Morpheus]

"Illegal" immigration is a fairly recent phenomenon. Throughout history people moved from country to country pretty much at will with, at most, a cursory checking in at the border. It wasn't until the 20th century when, due to protectionism, strict immigration laws were written including relatively small quotas. We made immigrants "illegal" by creating unjust laws. It's another form of "pulling up the ladder" after ourselves. It's a crying shame that all of these Old-testamenr quoting "Christians" seem to skip over the part of Mosaic law about how to treat the immigrant, not to speak of Jesus teachings about "the least of us". But what is to be expected when they carry on as if "thou shalt hate thy neighbor" was the 11th commandment.

If we simply just appealed those quotas it would eliminate most of the immigration problems. At that point there would be no reason for lawful immigrants to sneak in since they could legally enter. Then the few that might continue sneaking in, due to their criminal status, would be much easier to catch since they wouldn't get lost in the crowd, simplifying border patrol. It would be much more difficult to exploit them in the workplace since they would have the same legal protections as others, and would not have to fear deportation if they reported abuses. By removing that two-tiered illegal wage system immigrants and natives would be competing on a level field, judged by skills for the same pay. Paying taxes would no longer carry the fear of deportation.

As far as the old idea of flooding the labor market goes, historically immigrants improve the labor market (unlike things like allowing child labor or raising the retirement age where the increase in workers is not offset by an increase in demand) since by moving here they also increase demand. Immigrants are also very entrepreneurial, building up local businesses and creating jobs.

 

[rexlunae]

:sigh:

My home state continues to lose its mind. :nono:

Undocumented immigrants crowd California DMV offices for new licenses

Thousands of immigrants in the country illegally on Friday took a big step into California life -- and its clogged freeway commutes -- by completing an American rite of passage: waiting in line at the DMV.

The first business day of 2015 was also the first time in more than two decades that they could sign up for a driver's license in this state. California is now the 10th state, and by far the largest, to permit immigrants living in the country illegally to drive.

i guess I don't really see the downside to this. They are here already, and that doesn't seem to be changing any time soon. Maybe more of them will choose to drive because they will feel safer, but at least they'll be helping to pay for the system by buying insurance and paying for licenses.

What exactly is the benefit in denying them drivers licenses?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Abolish drivers licenses and immigration restrictions. You shouldn't need permission from government to travel, either domestically or internationally.

 

[Christian Liberty]

"Illegal" immigration is a fairly recent phenomenon. Throughout history people moved from country to country pretty much at will with, at most, a cursory checking in at the border. It wasn't until the 20th century when, due to protectionism, strict immigration laws were written including relatively small quotas. We made immigrants "illegal" by creating unjust laws. It's another form of "pulling up the ladder" after ourselves. It's a crying shame that all of these Old-testamenr quoting "Christians" seem to skip over the part of Mosaic law about how to treat the immigrant, not to speak of Jesus teachings about "the least of us". But what is to be expected when they carry on as if "thou shalt hate thy neighbor" was the 11th commandment.

If we simply just appealed those quotas it would eliminate most of the immigration problems. At that point there would be no reason for lawful immigrants to sneak in since they could legally enter. Then the few that might continue sneaking in, due to their criminal status, would be much easier to catch since they wouldn't get lost in the crowd, simplifying border patrol. It would be much more difficult to exploit them in the workplace since they would have the same legal protections as others, and would not have to fear deportation if they reported abuses. By removing that two-tiered illegal wage system immigrants and natives would be competing on a level field, judged by skills for the same pay. Paying taxes would no longer carry the fear of deportation.

As far as the old idea of flooding the labor market goes, historically immigrants improve the labor market (unlike things like allowing child labor or raising the retirement age where the increase in workers is not offset by an increase in demand) since by moving here they also increase demand. Immigrants are also very entrepreneurial, building up local businesses and creating jobs.

I oretty much agree with you, although I would say that just the bit about "treating immigrants with respect" doesn't prohibit immigration laws. I would argue that the "do not add to the commandments that I've given you" would though, at least for those who are going with Mosaic Law (I'm not a theonomist myself, but I still don't agree with immigration laws or making up new laws that God somehow "forgot to think of".

 

[resodko]

Does anyone actually believe that they weren't already driving, just without licenses?

:think:

there are laws against pedophilia, and yet pedophliles still prey upon children


should we legalize pedophila and license them in order to generate revenue from the licensing fees?

 

[republicanchick]

My father moved to the US in 1961 under the Bracero Program. This program was an agreement between the US and Mexican governments to allow Mexican laborers to enter the US legally and work the farms. This program was active from 1946-64. Every Mexican worker was given documentation allowing them to enter the US. Why a similar program hasn't been considered today is a mystery.

thanks for the interesting info

it may not be all that mysterious. Obama just wants to do something 4 illegals so as to get votes for the D party. W/ D's it is always about politics. Some Rs are like that also, but a true R has principles and puts those above politics (@ least most of the time?)

Anyway, the D party always sides with the lawless... b/c that is what THEY are



++

 

[Christian Liberty]

:think:

there are laws against pedophilia, and yet pedophliles still prey upon children


should we legalize pedophila and license them in order to generate revenue from the licensing fees?

This is a valid point, the difference is that pedophilia is an evil, gross, and perverted violation of a child's right to liberty while driving and crossing borders without government permission doesn't victimize anyone and isn't inherently immoral.

 

[republicanchick]

This is a valid point, the difference is that pedophilia is an evil, gross, and perverted violation of a child's right to liberty while driving and crossing borders without government permission doesn't victimize anyone and isn't inherently immoral.

what?

that is just SOO not true

illegals take jobs (and benefits from the gov, but i hate calling them benefits.. when they foster dependency, etc..) but in any case, they take these away from legal Americans

they also commit violent crime, especially if they feel they are being targeted for deportation and may feel they have nothing to lose...

 

[Christian Liberty]

Does every illegal immigrant take welfare? Does every illegal immigrant do violent crime? Some do, sure, but there is nothing INHERENT in the act of illegal immigration that involves these things. (BTW: Taking welfare is essentially plundering a thief, which I don't see as inherently immoral, though most people who do this do it for really bad reasons.)

As for "taking jobs from Americans" this is just protectionist nationalism and isn't true. Free markets should cross national lines. Why not?

 

[Traditio]

Shoot, my father believes that one day all the illegal immigrants will be rounded up forcibly and deported

Not only do I think that this should be done, but once they do this, they should:

1. Build an electric wire fence along the Mexican-American border and
2. Fill the Rio Grande with piranha.

 

[The Berean]

Here's a great Powerpoint presentation highlighting the Bracero Program

 

[The Berean]

Not only do I think that this should be done, but once they do this, they should:

1. Build an electric wire fence along the Mexican-American border and
2. Fill the Rio Grande with piranha.

I suspect the water in the Rio Grande is far too cold for a tropical fish like piranha.

 

[Traditio]

I suspect the water in the Rio Grande is far too cold for a tropical fish like piranha.

That is most unfortunate. :noid:

 

[Morpheus]

I suspect the water in the Rio Grande is far too cold for a tropical fish like piranha.

Possibly Traditio's bathtub might be a more adequate tropical environment. PETA might object to the diet.

 

[The Berean]

Looks like the illegal immigrants are having trouble passing the (Spanish) written portion of their driver's test.

CA ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT AT DMV: ‘NOBODY’S PASSING’ WRITTEN TEST

 

[Morpheus]

Looks like the illegal immigrants are having trouble passing the (Spanish) written portion of their driver's test.

CA ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT AT DMV: ‘NOBODY’S PASSING’ WRITTEN TEST

I don't know how California's tests are written, but in Indiana many of the questions are so ambiguous that I know several bright native speakers who nearly gave up after failing 3-4 times. For years I held a public passenger CDL to drive a bus, yet I remember prior to that I never aced a written driving exam. I always missed at least one answer since, depending how you interpreted the poorly structured questions, there might be more than one possible answer and you had to guess what they meant. I can't imagine how a language barrier might affect it, even if the test was written in Spanish. One might also have to consider who might have structured the test and whether or not they might have any ulterior motives as to the outcomes.