I would like for someone (STP/John W) well versed in MAD to list the basics. I think it would be very helpful considering all the MAD threads in the religion forum.
Theology Club: What are the basics of MAD.
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Good idea, BR.
In the meantime, I will give the link to a similar thread that Chickenman started a while back.
For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58704
In the meantime, I will give the link to a similar thread that Chickenman started a while back.
For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58704
Salvation is obtained through belief in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I'm a simple man, and to me it's very simple.
1. The faithful of the OT inherit land, the earth.
2. The followers of the Lord's earthly ministry and his twelve apostles inherit a City
3. Paul's followers, made up of the fallen of Israel and the Gentiles, inherit the heavens.
Each group had their own instructions to live by, their own purpose, and their own inheritance.
In the end, all three will make up the whole household of God, the entire Kingdom of God.
Thank You STP.
The thread addressed by Tambora in post three is an excellent study in MAD. Thank you Tambora, I completely forgot about it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
According to MAD the present dispensation of grace did not begin until sometime after Paul was converted. A "dispensation" is in regard to a "stewardship" that is given to man from God in order to carry out a specific task. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:
"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).
"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).
"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:
"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
This did not happen until Acts 13 so the present dispensation began at Acts 13.
heir
TOL Subscriber
It is a common mistake to mix it all together to make it appear as if it's all just reiteration. A dispensation of the gospel was committed to Paul (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) where Paul was sent to the Jew first and also to the Greek long before Paul became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for "you Gentiles" (Ephesians 3:1-2 KJV) like the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter. Acts 20:24 KJV is about those things in which the Lord appeared to Paul, a second sending, a due time message.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
The word "gospel" means good news or glad tidings. The "good news" of Christ which was preached to the Jews first was that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those who believed that good news were saved when they believed it (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:30-31).
The good news of Christ which was preached to the Gentiles centered on the purpose of His death--that believers are justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ. Those who believe this gospel are saved.
That gospel was first preached at Acts 13 so it was not until then that the present dispensation began.
Thank God, literally, I am sealed by the Holy Spirit.
heir
TOL Subscriber
The gospel that was preached in John is NOT the same gospel that Paul preached as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth for we know that Paul's gospel was a mystery (hidden in the scriptures Romans 16:25-27 KJV) at the time of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the Bible tells us why! (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). It is Paul's "my gospel" (Romans 2:16 KJV, Romans 16:25 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJV), not Peter, James and John's (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV)!
The gospel of Christ is that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). It was preached as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Romans 1:16-17 KJV) during Paul's provoking ministry in the book of Acts (Romans 11:11 KJV, 14). After the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew (Romans 11:1-6 KJV) was gathered into the Body, Paul was sent to testify "in due time" to testify the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 22:17-21 KJV, Acts 20:24 KJV, Acts 28:24-28 KJV). It's the same good news; that Christ died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day, but it was no longer to the Jew first and also to the Greek, nor was it "according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). It was to ALL MEN (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV), including the likes of people like you and me who in time past had no hope and were without God in the world (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)! This revealed a mystery hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV), to be specific: the mystery of the gospel Ephesians 6:19 KJV) and the fellowship of the mystery Ephesians 3:9 KJV).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So are you saying that John's words here have nothing to do with the fact that Christ died for our sins?:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).
Are you unaware that the book of John was written many years after the mystery truths were revealed by Paul?
The "good news" of Christ was also the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. That was the "good news" of Christ which was first preached to the Jews.
You do not know how to divide it correctly because you put a division between the Twelve and those in the Body Of Christ despite the fact that Paul makes it plain that all are members of the New Man, the Body of Christ:
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).
Of course you just stick your head in the sand when confronted with passages from the Bible that contradict y0ur ideas.
There isn't really a basic verse. It is how the Bible is studied and believed.
If you were to single out various verses that summarize the falling of Israel and raising of gentiles that can be done. The reason for showing them is it goes against the rest of the Bible.
Romans 11
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
What is the purpose of this if there is no difference in the red letters?
heir
TOL Subscriber
The facts are, that the gospel that was preached in John is NOT the same gospel that Paul preached as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth for we know that Paul's gospel was a mystery (hidden in the scriptures Romans 16:25-27 KJV) at the time of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the Bible tells us why! (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). It is Paul's "my gospel" (Romans 2:16 KJV, Romans 16:25 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJV), not Peter, James and John's (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV)!
If John ever heard the gospel of Christ preached, it wan't until he heard it from Paul when Paul (in Acts 15) went up by revelation and communicated "that gospel" that he preached among the Gentiles (Galatians 2:1-2 KJV). Peter, James and John did not "perceive" it until then (Galatians 2:9 KJV). There were two gospels at the time of Galatians 2 (Galatians 2:7 KJV). One, was to a holy nation and the other, a joint body of believers (not priests) all equal where there is no difference. And even then, what John was inspired to write is consistent with the endure to the end message found in Hebrews through Revelation written to Israel.
Paul was sent to the Jew first and also to the Greek for a purpose. And yes, Paul would preach in the synagogue opening that Jesus was the Christ, but also that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead (Acts 17:3 KJV). That is the gospel of God, not the gospel of Christ. To show you that there was a difference, the Romans had a faith in the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV) and yet Paul longed to see them that he may impart unto them some spiritual gift to the end they may be established;That is, that Paul would be comforted together with them by the mutual faith both of them and Paul.
There's only one gospel that establishes anyone into the Body of Christ (Romans 16:25-27 KJV) and that is the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). And sure enough, what do we see Paul saying to the Romans? Exactly, that!
Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; 10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; 12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
You're the one who is confused. The one new man is the two groups in the one Body beginning with Paul. The twelve are not in the picture.
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Romans 11
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
What is the purpose of this if there is no difference in the red letters?
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
What is the purpose of this if there is no difference in the red letters?