What Is Morality, and is it Absolute?

soulquestion

New member
Why do you keep claiming you've answered a question you plainly haven't answered?

The thread is still there for everyone to read.

The question you have answered, which I did not ask, is, "Is Jesus the Messiah?".

But the question I asked is, "Is Jesus God?".

Please answer the question I asked, not the one you wanted me to ask.

Here, I'll make it easy for you, and make it multiple choice:

Is Jesus God?
A. Yes
B. No
C. I don't know
D. Some other position (explain)



No one has asked you if Jesus is the Messiah. We all agree that He is.

Twice, and now for a third time, I've asked you directly if Jesus is God. Is there some reason you cannot answer that direct question?



So you believe Paul taught things that were false?

Because that's what that means.

If Paul actually contradicted himself, then at least one of the contradictory statements must be false.

Which statements do you believe are false, and why?



No. Make the argument here. I'm debating you, not the author of that book. If you believe Paul contradicts himself, identify the contradictions and demonstrate them.



Define "soul regenerative theology," and demonstrate from Scripture that Jesus taught it.



Please specify these contradictions.

Otherwise it's just a proof-by-assertion fallacy.



I didn't ask you to settle 2,000 years of theological controversy.

I asked you what you believe.

Why are you treating a direct question about your own beliefs as though I've asked you to resolve a historical controversy?



You keep asserting that resurrection and reincarnation are the same thing, but you haven't demonstrated it.
Where does anastasis mean that a person dies and is subsequently born into another earthly body?



Jesus wasn't describing a third meaning of resurrection. He was answering the Sadducees' question about the resurrection of the dead.

Read Luke 20:34-36. Jesus explicitly distinguishes "this age" from "that age," in which those who attain the resurrection neither marry nor die anymore.

Where does He say anything about repeated earthly lives or escaping a reincarnation cycle?

You keep reading reincarnation into a passage that doesn't mention it.



You're still confusing what Jesus taught during His ministry with how He supposedly developed His theology during His formative years.

You can demonstrate that Jesus quoted the Old Testament. You can demonstrate that He lived according to God's law.

Neither establishes when or how He learned His theology.

What evidence does the author of "Jesus, the Formative Years" have concerning Jesus' theological development during the years Scripture tells us virtually nothing about?

Let's review the questions I've asked you, since you still haven't answered most of them directly.

The original seven questions:


1. Is Jesus Christ God, who existed before His incarnation? Please answer whether Jesus is God, not merely whether He is the Messiah.

2. What must a person do to be saved? How do you reconcile your answer with Paul's teaching about justification by faith apart from works in Romans 4?

3. What did Jesus Christ accomplish through His death, burial, and resurrection? I'm asking what His work accomplished, not merely what His resurrection demonstrated.

4. Do you believe the Bible is God's authoritative revelation, or are there other revelations with equal or greater authority? If you believe the biblical writers contradicted one another, by what standard do you determine which of them correctly understood God?

5. Where does Scripture teach reincarnation, and how do you reconcile that belief with Hebrews 9:27?

6. Do you believe everyone will eventually be saved? You've answered yes, but what happens if someone continues refusing God, regardless of how often God tries to persuade them?

7. Given how little Scripture tells us about Jesus' childhood, on what basis does the author of Jesus, the Formative Years, How Jesus Developed His Theology claim to know how Jesus developed His theology?

Additional questions raised by your latest response:

8. Do you believe Paul taught things that were false? If so, identify the specific statements and explain why you believe they are false.

9. What do you mean by "soul regenerative theology," and where does Scripture teach that Jesus held such a theology?

10. What specific contradictions do you believe exist in Paul's writings? Please cite the passages and demonstrate the contradictions.

11. Where does the Greek word anastasis mean that someone dies and is subsequently born into another earthly body?

12. Where does Jesus teach that the resurrection described in Luke 20:34-36 means escaping a cycle of reincarnation?

I'm not asking whether you're entitled to your beliefs, whether scholars disagree, or whether these questions have been debated throughout history.

I'm asking what you believe and what evidence supports your claims.

Please answer the questions asked, rather than substituting different questions or referring me to books that supposedly contain the answers.
The reason I refer you to books is because the answers you request are too long to key in here. They are book length. If you want all the answers you ask for, then you should read the books I reference because the answers to what I believe are in those books.

Concerning whether Jesus is God, read some of what Jesus said about himself in "Jesus said, by subject all he said in the Gospel":

Who was Jesus? Historians have been asking that question for 2,000 years. Here we have what Jesus said about himself.

By way of perspective, we might remember that Elijah, Elisha and other prophets written about in the Old Testament were able to raise the dead, multiply oil, make iron float and cure diseases. The Hebrews expected these signs from someone sent by God. Also, God told Moses, “I have made you a god to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). Solomon was called a son of God (1 Chronicles 22:7-10). Isaiah (45:1) tells us that King Cyrus (a Gentile) was anointed by God.

Jesus acknowledged that he was the Messiah that Moses had predicted would come and lead Abraham’s descendants. He also said that all those who hear the word of God and do it are his mother, brothers and sisters. When we submit to God as Jesus did, we re-enter that family relationship we had before the beginning of the material realm. Jesus is our brother, while he is also our teacher, example and guide to spiritual truths.

Luke 4:16-30 Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had grown up and, at the synagogue on the Sabbath day, he was handed the book of Isaiah (to read the haf-Torah portion for that day). He read (from Isaiah 61:1-3) the Spirit of God is on me and He has anointed me to preach good news to the poor, to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to captives, to heal the blind and strengthen with forgiveness the bruised (P) and to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Jesus then closed the book, sat down and said, today is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. Then Jesus said, you will surely quote this proverb to me – physician, heal thyself. What we heard you did in Capernaum (healings) do also in this place. Truly I tell you, a prophet is not accepted in his own country. But I also tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah when there was a three year drought and famine, but Elijah was only sent to a widow in the city of Sidon. And there were many lepers in Israel at the time of Elisha, but none were cured except the Syrian, Naaman. The men in the synagogue became enraged and threw Jesus out of the city.

Matthew 16:13-20 Jesus asked his disciples: who do people say that I am? They answered that some say that he is John the Baptist. Others say that he is Elijah or Jeremiah or one of the prophets (who would have had to be reincarnated). Who do you say that I am, he asked? Simon answered, you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Jesus responded, Simon bar Jonah you are blessed, because flesh and blood did not reveal that to you, but my Father in Heaven. I say to you that you are Peter (i.e., like a salt rock) and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven. Whatever you set loose on Earth will be set loosed in Heaven. He then told them to not tell others that he was the Christ (i.e., Messiah or anointed one). Also at Mark 8:27-30 and Luke 9:18-21, though both without Simon’s name change or mission.

Matthew 11:27 Jesus said, God gives me understanding. No one knows (intimately) the Son the way the Father knows him, nor does anyone know (intimately) the Father as well as the Son, and to whomsoever the Son explains Him. (Jesus sometimes used the word for “know” that means intimately.) Also at Luke 10:22.

Matthew 12:31-32 Jesus warned about an unforgiveable error. He said, truly I say to you, all kinds of sin and blasphemy can be forgiven, except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against (i.e., asks for a curse on) the Holy Spirit is not forgiven either in this world or in the next. (Blasphemy means to ascribe God’s power to a person or object. When Jesus said he was the Son of God, during his trial before the Sanhedrin, he was accused of blasphemy (Mark 14:60-64)). In Mark 3:28-29 Jesus said that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit are in danger of eternal damnation. In Luke 12:10 Jesus said that those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:46-50 When told that his mother and brothers stood outside and wanted to speak with him, Jesus responded, who is my mother; who are my brothers? Then he stretched his hands out to his disciples and said, look, here are my mother and brothers. Whoever does the will of my Father in Heaven is my brother, sister and mother. Also at Mark 3:31-35 and Luke 8:19-21.

Matthew 17:1-9 Jesus took Peter, James and John with him up a mountain. There he was transfigured. His face shone like the sun and his clothes were the whitest white. Moses and Elijah appeared and talked with him. Peter suggested building three tabernacles there. Then a voice came from a bright cloud and said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear him.” Peter, James and John bowed to the ground. Jesus touched them and said, stand up and don’t be afraid. When they stood up, Jesus was alone. Then he told them to not tell what they had seen until after he was raised from the dead. Mark 9:2-10 varies only in that they looked around rather than bowed. Luke 9:28-36 says Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus about his pending death in Jerusalem. He says the disciples were sleepy before the vision. They didn’t tell, but not because Jesus said not to tell.

(Jesus said, the children are exempt from the Temple Tax. See Matthew 17:24-27 in Holy Days.)

Matthew 19:16-17 A man greeted Jesus by saying, good master, but Jesus corrected him and said, why call me good? None is good except one – and that is God. Also at Mark 10:17-18. Luke 18:18-19 says the man was a ruler.

Matthew 20:20-23 The mother of Zebedee’s sons James and John praised Jesus. He asked her what she wanted. She asked him to promise that her sons would be at his right and left hands when he came into his kingdom. Jesus answered, you don’t understand what you are asking. Are they able to drink the cup (of experiences) that I will drink and be baptized with what I will be baptized? The men said they were able. Jesus then said, you will indeed drink the same cup and be baptized the same, but to sit on my right and left hands is not mine to choose but it will be chosen by God for whom it is prepared. Also at Mark 10:35-40 where Mark says that James and John asked, not their mother.

Matthew 23:8-10 Jesus said, don’t be called rabbi or master, because only the Christ is your master and you are all brothers. And don’t call any man on Earth your father, because you have only one Father, Who is in Heaven.

Luke 22:28 During the Last Supper Jesus said to the disciples, you have continued with me throughout my temptations.

John 3:13 Jesus said that no one has gone up to Heaven except the one who came down from Heaven, the Son of man who is (will be) in Heaven.

John 3:16-18 Talking with Nicodemus Jesus said, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes him should not perish but have eternal life. God sent His son into the world not to condemn the world but so that the world through him might be saved. Whoever believes him is not condemned, but whoever does not is already condemned because he has not believed in the presence (teaching) of the only begotten Son of God.

John 4:25-26 The woman he met at the well asked Jesus if he was the Messiah (Moses had said would come. See Deuteronomy 18:15-19). Jesus said he was.

John 5:19 Jesus said that the Son can do nothing by himself, but only what he sees the Father doing.

John 5:30 and John 6:38 Jesus said that of his own self he can do nothing. He seeks not to do his will, but to do the will of the Father Who sent him.

John 7:16-18 At a Feast of Shelters, Jesus said, my teaching is not from me, but from the One Who sent me. Anyone who does the will of God will understand this teaching and whether it comes from God – whether it is God’s word or I speak for myself. Whoever speaks for himself seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the One Who sent him, that one is true and there isn’t any unrighteousness in him.

John 7:25-29 Some in the crowd doubted that Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus said, you know me and where I’m from, but I didn’t come of my own accord. He who sent me is true – and you don’t know Him. I know Him because I am from Him. He sent me.

John 6:25-35 Some of the multitude of the 5,000 for whom the bread had been multiplied, found Jesus the next day. Jesus said to them, truly I tell you, you don’t seek me because you saw a miracle but because you ate and were filled. Don’t work for meat that perishes but rather for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give you -- for God the Father has sealed him. They asked what should they do to work the works of God (i.e., to multiply bread). Jesus said, this is the work of God, that you believe (commit to) him whom God has sent. They asked for a sign, like that of the manna their ancestors ate in the desert. Jesus said, truly I tell you, Moses didn’t give you the bread from Heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from Heaven. The bread of God is he who came down from Heaven and gives life to the world. They asked Jesus to give them that bread forevermore. Jesus said, I am the bread of life (i.e., Jesus gives food for the spirit). He who comes to me shall never hunger and he who believes me (lives by my teachings) will never thirst.

John 6:51 Jesus referred to himself as the bread of life (the spiritual food (teaching)) that, if eaten (lived by) will result in eternal life (in God’s place).

John 6:66-70 After giving the symbol of eating his flesh and blood (the eucharist) many who had come to Jesus (after he fed 5,000) became confused and left him. Jesus asked the twelve disciples, will you also go away? Peter answered, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life and we believe and are sure that you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Jesus said, haven’t I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil.

John 8:12-19 Jesus said, I am the light of the world. Whoever lives by my word (logos/law) won’t walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. Pharisees complained that he testified about himself. Jesus said, even though I testify about myself, my testimony is true, because I know where I came from and where I’m going. You don’t know where I came from or where I’m going. You judge after the flesh (i.e., by material standards). I don’t judge. Yet, if I judge, my judgment is true because I’m not alone. I’m with the Father Who sent me. The law says that the testimony of two is true (see Deuteronomy 19:15 and 17:6). I am one and the Father Who sent me also witnesses for me. The Pharisees asked, where is your father? Jesus said, you know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me you would have known my Father also.

John 8:23-26 Jesus told the Pharisees, you are from beneath. I am from above. You are of this world. I am not of this world. So, I say that if you don’t believe that I am he (the Messiah) you will die in your sins. The Pharisees said, who are you? Jesus responded, the same that I’ve been telling you from the beginning. I have many things to say to test you. The One Who sent me is true and I tell to the world what I have heard from Him.

John 8:28-29 Responding to Pharisees, Jesus said, when you have lifted up the Son of man, then you’ll know that I am he and that I don’t do anything of myself, but only as my Father taught me do I speak. He that sent me is with me. I am not alone, because I always do what pleases Him.

John 8:42 If God was your Father you would love me, Jesus said, because I came from God. I didn’t come of myself, but He sent me.

John 9:4-5 Jesus said, I must do the works of the One Who sent me while it is day, for the night is coming when no man can work. As long as I am in the world I am the light of the world.

John 9:10-11, 14-16, 35-38 Jesus cured the man born blind and said, do you believe in the Son of God? The man said, who is he. Jesus said, you see him; he is talking to you. The man replied, lord, I believe. (Since Jesus had healed him on a Sabbath day, the Pharisees were divided. Some said Jesus couldn’t be from God because he healed on the Sabbath. Others said that a sinner couldn’t bring about such a healing.)

John 9:39-41 Jesus said, I came to this world for judgment, that those who don’t see (spiritually) might see, and they who (say they) see (are judged as) be(ing) blind. (When put to the test against Jesus’ teachings some people repent and change and others shut their spiritual ears and lose spiritually.) Jesus said to the Pharisees, if you were (honestly) blind, you wouldn’t have sin. But since you claim that you see (showing closed-mindedness) your sin remains.

John 10:1-18 Jesus said, truly I tell you, the one who comes into the sheepfold not by the door but some other way, is a thief and a robber. The one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep. The door keeper opens to him and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. The sheep follow him because they know his voice. They will run from a stranger because they don’t know the voice of a stranger. Truly I tell you, I am the door for the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers and the sheep didn’t listen to them. I am the door. Anyone who enters in through me (i.e., living by my teachings) can go in and out and find pasture (i.e., find what they need). A thief only comes to steal, kill and destroy. I have come so they (those who live by his teachings) might have life and have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd, who gives his life for the sheep. Those who are hired, who aren’t the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, see a wolf coming and run away. The wolf catches some and scatters the rest of the sheep. The hired man runs away because he is a hired man and he doesn’t care about the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me. As the Father knows me, so I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. There are other sheep I have that are not of this fold. I must also care for them. They will hear my voice and there will be one fold and one shepherd. That’s why my Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I take it up again. No man takes it from me. I lay it down myself. I have the power to lay it down and the power to take it up again. I have received this commandment from my Father. (References to God as the good shepherd are in Psalm 23 and Ezekiel 34. Ezekiel 34, 37:20-28 and Jeremiah 23:1-4 refer to priests as shepherds.)

John 10:22-39 Jesus was in Jerusalem for the Feast of Dedication (i.e., Hanukah). The Jews asked him to tell them if he was the Christ (i.e., the Messiah Moses had predicted would come (Deuteronomy 18:15-19)). Jesus replied, I told you and you didn’t believe me. The works I do in my Father’s name bear witness to who I am. But you don’t believe because you are not my sheep. As I said, my sheep hear my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them (via teachings and example the way to have) eternal life. They will never perish and no one will pluck them out of my hand. My Father, Who gave them to me, is greater than all – and no one is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one (in purpose (P)). The Jews picked up stones to throw at him (because they interpreted what he said as blasphemy -- i.e., making himself equal with God.) Jesus said, I’ve shown you many good works that came from my Father. For which of the works do you stone me? We stone you for blasphemy, they said. Jesus responded, isn’t it written in your law – I said, you are gods, of those to whom the word (logos/law) of God came (see Psalm 82 and also Genesis 6:1-4). And scripture can’t be dismissed. Why say to him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world that he blasphemes when he says, I am the Son of God? If it isn’t God’s works that I do, then don’t believe me. But even if you don’t believe me, believe the works so that you may understand that the Father is in me and I am in Him (i.e., one in purpose with Him (P)). The Jews still sought to attack him, but he left them.

John 11:25-26 Jesus told Lazarus’ sister, Martha, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes me, though he be dead (materially) yet shall he live (spiritually) and whoever lives and believes in (commits to) me will never die (i.e., will reverse the death of their soul and return to God’s place beyond substance and time).

John 12:35-36 Jesus said, the light will be with you only a little longer. Walk while you have the light, so that darkness doesn’t overcome you. Those who walk in darkness don’t know where they are going. While you have light believe in the light, that you may be children of light.

John 12:42-50 Some believed what Jesus taught, but they were afraid to speak out because they feared that the rulers of the synagogue would bar them from the synagogue. Jesus said, whoever believes me doesn’t believe only me, but also believes the One Who sent me. Whoever sees (understands) me sees (understands) Him Who sent me. I have come as a light into the world so that whoever believes (commits to) me won’t live in darkness (i.e., ignorance). If anyone hears my words and doesn’t believe, I won’t judge him, because I didn’t come to judge the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and my words has something that judges him – the word itself that I have spoken will judge him on the (his) last day. I haven’t spoken my own ideas, but the Father Who sent me commanded me what I should say and teach, and I know that His commands lead to eternal life. Whatever the Father tells me to say is what I teach.

John 14:12 Jesus said, truly I tell you, whoever believes (commits to) me will do the works that I do, and greater works than I have done will he do, because I am going to the Father.

John 14:18-20 Jesus told the disciples, I won’t leave you comfortless. I will come to you. In a short time the world won’t see me anymore, but then you will see me. Because I live (spiritually) you will live, too. On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

John 14:24 Jesus said, the word you have heard is not mine, but that of the Father Who sent me.

John 15:1-6 Though chapter 14 of John’s gospel ends with Jesus and the disciples on their way to the Mount of Olives, chapters 15, 16 and 17 continue his teaching to them. In chapter 15 Jesus starts by saying, I am the true vine and my Father is the vine dresser. Every branch that comes from me that doesn’t bear fruit He prunes (i.e., challenges) in an effort to cause it to bear more fruit. You are clean (spiritually) because of the words I have spoken to you. Live in me and I in you (i.e., absorb my teaching into your life). Since a branch cannot bear fruit by itself – it has to be part of the vine – so you can’t bear (spiritual) fruit unless you live in me (i.e., absorb my teaching into your lifestyle). I am the vine. You are the branches. Whoever lives in me and I in him will bring forth a lot of (spiritual) fruit. Without me you can’t do anything. Those who don’t live in me are cut off and wither, and men gather them and throw them into a fire to be burned.

John 14:27-28 Jesus told his disciples, don’t be afraid and don’t let your heart be troubled. You heard me say that I’m going away, but I will come to you again. If you loved me you would rejoice, because I am going to the Father and the Father is greater than I.

John 16:5-6 Jesus told the disciples, I’m going to go back to Him Who sent me and you don’t ask where I’m going, but because of what I’ve told you sorrow has filled your heart.

John 14:5-11 After telling the disciples that he would return (from preparing a place for them with God) Jesus said that they knew the way to where he was going. Thomas said, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way? Jesus replied, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me. If you have known me, you should also have known my Father. From now on you know Him and have seen (been taught about) Him. Philip said, show us the Father. Jesus replied, have I been with you so long, Philip and you don’t know (understand) me? Whoever has seen me (i.e., understood my teachings and works) has seen (understood) the Father. How can you say, show us the Father? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in me? I haven’t spoken my own words. The Father Who is present with me does the works (I do). Believe that I am one in the Father and the Father is in me – or at least believe me for the sake of the works (that God does through me).

John 16:28 Jesus told his disciples, I came into the world from the Father. I am going to leave the world and return to the Father.

John 17:5 Jesus said that he existed with God before the material world existed.

(Jesus said that he had overcome the world. See John 16:29-33 in Prophecies.)

Matthew 26:63-64 When questioned by the chief priest as to whether he was the Christ (Messiah) Jesus said, you have said it. You will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of Heaven.

(Jesus said, “not my will but Thine be done,” when praying to God before his arrest. See Matthew 26:36-46 in Prayer and in Submission to God.)

All the quotes are from the King James Bible except where noted.

Jesus makes distinction between himself and God numerous times. He admits that he is the Messiah. So, I don't think of Jesus as God but as the Messiah who teaches us about God, about God and about our own spirit nature.

I can't quote the entire book "What They Don't Tell You About Paul, a critique" in this space. The answer you request isn't a one or two paragraph answer. You have to read that book to see the comparison between what Jesus said about being saved and what Paul wrote.

Re what did Jesus accomplish by his death and resurrection, read the answer I give to this same question in the next post.

Re what standard do I use to discern between writers, after studying Jesus' words I have an idea of what he was trying to teach us. I interpret what Bible scholars write through that lens. I also learn more about the deeper meanings of scripture by reading discussions and commentaries by Bible scholars.

You keep asking where scripture teaches reincarnation. I have given this information more than once. Last time I quoted the information from two books in their entirety.

The laws of spiritual nature correct us automatically. I don't believe that any soul will forever refuse to return to its home with God, eventually.

All your questions about Paul are answered in detail and fully referenced in the book I have suggested you read. I can't reproduce the whole book here. There is also background information, which is useful to understanding the answer but is too lengthy to add here.

Jesus taught soul regenerative theology. That was his mission, to tell us and show us how to regenerate our soul and return to God as obedient children. That's why he said, not everyone who praises me will go to Heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in Heaven (Matthew 7:21-27). Obedience to God is what regenerates our soul and that was the recurring theme in Jesus' teachings.

The first interpretation of anastasis is reincarnation, as given in the OT and by Paul in Acts. The second interpretation is resurrection, because Jesus returned to life after three days; he didn't reincarnate but he was dead and came back from death. Therefore the word anastasis was used but had to have a new connotation. In Matthew 22:23-32 Jesus said, you err because you don't understand either the scriptures or the power of God. For in the resurrection (anastasis) (from spiritual death (which is separation from God) to return to eternal spiritual life with God) they neither marry nor are given in marriage. (This is a new circumstance. If they reincarnated to Earth they would marry. For the final anastasis they do not marry.) They are like God's angels in Heaven, Jesus said. (He is obviously talking about a new kind of anastasis -- anastasis or rebirth of the spirit, not the body).
 

Right Divider

Body part
Questions about God's reality, the reality of our spirit and the spiritual realm and teachings and a pattern to follow to lead us back to our original home with God were all hotly debated in Jesus' time (and persist among some today) they are all answered by Jesus' resurrection after being dead for three days.
You keep rambling on without making an ARGUMENT.

Make an ARGUMENT.
His resurrection is a symbol that remains through the ages to answer these questions and to draw people to recognize God, seek God, acknowledge their spirit and prepare for spiritual rebirth after material death. He had tried to lead the Jews to fulfill their mandate from God to bring all humanity back to God. When they refused to do this,
Blah... blah... blah... more opinion without ARGUMENT.
God led Jesus
Jesus is God.
to create the symbol in his resurrection that would answer these pertinent questions and forever challenge us to respond.
Resurrection is NOT reincarnation in the sense that your FALSE religion believes.

Resurrect is the SAME person in the SAME body (though the body is changed for the better).
The Jews rejected their mission, so God made a new covenant through Jesus and then created a symbol, through his resurrection, to draw people to keep that new covenant.
The NEW covenant is made between the SAME TWO parties are the OLD covenant.

Jer 31:31 (AKJV/PCE)​
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: ​

Israel will be restored in the future... just like the Bible says.

Rom 11:25-27 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (11:27) For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.​
 

soulquestion

New member
By the way, here is an excerpt from the Paul book concerning the inconsistencies you requested.

Some examples of Paul’s inconsistency.

Further evidence that Paul had been thrown into confusion about the law is where he wrote that sin existed before the law was given, but it wasn’t counted as sin where there was no law (Romans 5:13). This, of course, is, obviously, not true. The design and impetus for order is created before that which is ordered is formed. Just as God created laws for material nature before creating the universe by imposing those laws on matter, God created laws of spiritual nature before creating entities that are subject to those laws. It was breaking the laws of spiritual nature – choosing our will over God’s will -- that separated us, the children of God, from God…

Paul wrote to the Romans that where law doesn’t exist, sin doesn’t exist (Romans 4:15). Paul contended that because Abraham lived before the law was given to Moses that what he did was not counted to him as sin. But laws of spiritual nature, such as loyalty, humility, honesty, the Golden Rule and love for God, are eternally true. Abraham was actively seeking God and submitting to God’s will long before the post-menopausal birth of his son Isaac came about (Genesis 21:1-3). He tithed to a “priest of God most high” before Isaac’s birth (Genesis 14:14-20). God later told Isaac that He would bless him because his father Abraham had kept His charge, commandments, statutes and laws (Genesis 26:1-6). Abraham was God-centered and disciplined, not a wayward polytheist God rewarded for no reason (Genesis 22:18).

Continuing his criticism of the law, Paul claimed that the law arouses sinful passions and causes the fruit of death (Romans 7:5). He wrote that he wouldn’t have known what coveting was if the law hadn’t said, you shall not covet. But because of the commandment, sin produced in him every kind of coveting (Romans 7:7-8). You can assess for yourself that it doesn’t follow logically that if someone knows a law they feel compelled to break it. Do you feel compelled to break every law you know? This is an example of Paul the salesman trying to appeal to Gentiles who were intimidated by the laws that the Jews lived by.

If it wasn’t for the law, sin would be dead, Paul wrote. He claimed that he was alive apart from the law but when the commandment came, he died (Romans 7:9). Every commandment deceived him and brought death. So then, since the law is holy, righteous and good, did that which is good become death to me, Paul asked. By no means, he reasoned. However, so that sin is recognized as sin, it (the law) used what is good to bring death to me (awareness of wrong) so that as a result of the law sin becomes obviously sinful (Romans 7:10-13). Paul’s apologists say that by “death” Paul meant that his old careless, selfish lifestyle died to him after he learned the law….

Still teaching against the law, at Romans 11:5-7 Paul wrote that there is a remnant (of Jews) according to God’s grace, and that if it is by grace then it isn’t of works (of the law). He claimed that if the remnant were elected because of works then it would cancel out grace. Israel didn’t find what it was seeking by keeping the law, but those chosen (to follow Jesus) received it by grace, he wrote.

One might ask how living righteously could cancel out God’s grace/love. The scripture Paul quoted (Isaiah 29:10-14) saying that God closed the eyes of their leaders, actually complains that the leaders observed the law like a lesson memorized rather than as a discipline that could aid them in developing spiritual sensitivity with which to perceive God’s guidance. Therefore, there would be punishment. The punishment was that God closed the eyes of the prophets. (Actually, the prophets had closed their own spiritual eyes because they had refused to seek guidance from God.) Isaiah wasn’t opposed to the law of Moses. He was warning that it wasn’t being kept appropriately…

Paul wrote, have they (the Jews) stumbled so that they should fall? God forbid. Rather, through their fall salvation comes to Gentiles to provoke the Jews to jealousy. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead (Romans 11:11-12, 15)? For if the first fruits are holy, the root is holy and so are the branches. If some branches break off, you (his converts) being a wild branch are grafted on and partake of the root and fruit of the tree. But don’t boast – because you don’t bear the root, but the root bears you. For if God didn’t spare the natural branches, be careful that He doesn’t spare you, Paul warned (Romans 11:16-22). Here Paul overrides his teaching that unmerited forgiveness and salvation are God’s free gift to those who have faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection, by revealing that the gift can be rescinded. Converts have to be careful that God doesn’t cut them off.

To the Romans Paul wrote, shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! You are slaves to the one you obey – whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness. But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance (Romans 6:15-18).

If one obeys Paul’s pattern of teaching one is still bound to be obedient to God’s laws, because all the rules Paul endorsed are defined by the Biblical law. To be “free from sin and slaves of righteousness” simply means to live by rules defined as righteous. Thus, to Timothy Paul wrote, we know that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully. He follows this by writing that the law isn’t made for righteous men but for the lawless, disobedient, ungodly sinner who is unholy, profane, murderous, whoremongering, kidnapping, lying and any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Timothy 1:8-10). In order to be righteous, one must behave a certain way. That way or pattern is still defined by rules – otherwise known as laws as given in the Bible.

Paul expected converts to live righteously – which means doing good works. Don’t you know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, he wrote. Don’t be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and see Romans 8:5-9.) To the Thessalonians he wrote, we always pray for you, that God will count you worthy of your calling and fulfill all the pleasure of His goodness in you, that the name of our lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in him according to the grace of our God (2 Thessalonians 1:11-12). Worthy? Sounds like the gift of unmerited forgiveness isn’t free after all….

Paul sneaks in his conviction that God’s law contains just requirements though he holds that the Spirit of God will (at Jesus’ imminent second coming) fulfill it in us (so that we no longer desire what is sinful) (Romans 8:4). Paul challenges us to set our minds on the things of the spirit so that even now we can overcome our propensity for sin (Romans 8:5). The mind set on the flesh does not and cannot submit to God’s law and cannot please God, Paul wrote (Romans 8:6-10). The pitchman’s trap snaps shut! Comfort theology teachers completely ignore that Paul has shown his true colors in these verses. The law’s requirements are valid and we must submit to them to please God.

When Paul is blatantly contradictory his apologists try to excuse or redefine him. They say that Paul wrote as if the new life of the spirit has already come because he hoped for it – while even he continued to struggle with the enemy in his flesh. They say: it is more probable that he meant -- what Paul really wanted to say -- the problem remains but the illogic of his argument is overcome by his worship for God. Or, despairing of defending his arguments, they decide Paul’s words must have been taken down incorrectly by his scribe (IB)….

Jesus didn’t teach justification. It was a pillar of Paul’s theology.

According to Paul, the fact of Jesus’ death and resurrection justified, or forgave the sins of, all who confessed that fact (Romans 3:24-26). This confession usually came about during baptism. To the Romans, Paul wrote that all are justified freely by God’s grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. We have been justified (forgiven for our sins) by Jesus’ blood (Romans 5:8-9).

Jesus and Paul agreed that all on Earth have sinned (Matthew 19:16-17; Luke 13:1-5; Romans 3:23). Where they disagree is in how we change ourselves from being arrogant rebels bent on sinning to being the humble and loving children of God we are meant to be….

Paul wrote that it took Jesus’ blood to ransom us from our sins -- that we are reconciled with God by the death of Jesus (Romans 5:9-10). But to Nicodemus Jesus said that forgiveness for sins simply requires water baptism and spiritual rebirth (meaning repentance and submission to God) (John 3:3-6). Repentance was the Good News that Jesus brought (Mark 1:14-15). God loves us, wants us back, and has prepared a way back. We are invited to repent of our rebellion against God – to confess that we have erred and change our behavior.

According to Jesus we are reconciled to God through repentance – not blood sacrifice. Jesus taught both the requirement of repentance for forgiveness of sins, and also that we need to forgive others in order to be forgiven for our own sins (Matthew 6:14-15, 18:21-35; Mark 11:25-26; Luke 17:3-4).

Jesus began his ministry teaching repentance – and he was still teaching it after his resurrection (Matthew 4:17; Luke 24:45-48). After he resurrected Jesus told his disciples to teach repentance for the remission of sins to all nations. Repentance means to confess that we have erred – and to change…. Jesus also said several times that in order for God to forgive us for our sins we must first forgive others. For Jesus, forgiveness doesn’t come because he died and resurrected, and it isn’t a free gift given by a blood thirsty God Who killed His innocent son in order to expiate all of humanity’s sins. Paul made up the concept that Jesus’ death grants us forgiveness for our sins….

So, Paul is correct that we are “saved” by Jesus – who died and resurrected. But our forgiveness and salvation isn’t by a magic wand or the expiating blood of a sacrificial man. It comes about as we follow Jesus’ example of overcoming the world in ourselves, forgiving others and giving complete love and submission to God. Following Jesus’ teachings and example we learn how to develop the spiritual strength and sensitivity we need in order to perceive God’s guidance, choose God’s will first in our lives and thereby prepare ourselves to return as humble and obedient children to God’s wondrous place.

According to Paul, to be justified is to be pre-exonerated without the repentance that Jesus taught (Romans 3:24). For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance, Paul claimed (Romans 11:29 (KJV)). (Though note that when he faced rebellion in the Corinthian church he expected repentance from the ring leader before forgiveness was given. Also, in 2 Corinthians 12:21 we see that he expected those at the church who had sinned to repent of their immorality, impurity and licentiousness.) Paul also wrote that Godly sorrow produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret (2 Corinthians 7:9-11). Don’t you realize that God’s patience means to bring you to repentance, he wrote (Romans 2:4)?

Repentance is a journey of unlearning bad habits and replacing them with good habits. Justification was taught as a free gift that was bestowed. Then the need to change was added when Paul realized the after effects of his free gift teaching. But the means to effect long lasting and increasingly meaningful change – by studying God’s words and exercising with God’s laws – had already been cut out by Paul’s denouncement of the Old Testament and the laws….

Still grappling with the concept of sin, Paul claimed that it isn’t myself who sins but the spirit of sin that lives in me. This is why, he wrote, that what I want to do I don’t do, but what I hate, that I do. I desire to do what is good but I can’t complete it, Paul complained. I don’t do the good that I want to do, but the evil that I don’t want to do – this I keep on doing. Still, it isn’t I who do it, but sin living in me that does it (Romans 7:15-21). In my inner being I delight in God’s law, Paul wrote, but I see another law at work in me waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of sin. In my mind I am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature I’m a slave to the law of sin (Romans 7:22-25).

Like trying to hold onto a greased snake, Paul wrestled with the concept that sin could be forgiven without first developing the spiritual muscle that comes from repentance, forgiveness and exercising the disciplines of the Biblical law. He had developed those spiritual muscles himself, but his Gentile converts had not….

According to Paul, God redeems us from slavery to sin. God intervenes and wipes away the desire for sin. Just have faith, and the magic works – don’t question too deeply. Paul wrote that redemption frees us from guilt for our sins. Jesus also taught that all who sin are slaves to sin. Conversely, however, he said that we can only be freed from sin by living by his words and example – no magic is involved (John 8:31-36).

If his body still made Paul a slave to sin, then the redemption that he claimed came from Jesus’ death was ineffective. Paul needed greater self-control, and he tapped into that need in others. The way he invented for them all to get out of this dilemma was to be rescued by God’s grace, as he had felt rescued and forgiven by Jesus. Out of grace/love God gives the gift of forgiveness without, Paul would say, seeking spiritual balance by some form of restitution. This was made possible, he claimed, because of Jesus’ sacrificial death. Henceforth they would live under the law of love, Paul decreed, because if one loves others one does not commit adultery, theft, covetousness or deceit. Therefore, loving your neighbor as yourself is the fulfillment of the law, he claimed (Romans 13:8-10).

Notice that here Paul ignores fully half of the law. The law that Jesus said is first and foremost is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength (Mark 12:28-30). If we love God completely then, of course, we obey His rules….

In Romans 11:32-34 Paul shows that even he is perplexed by the illogic of unmerited forgiveness. It is a mystery that no one can fathom. Unmerited forgiveness of the ungodly remains an unintelligible miracle that converts have to accept by faith in God’s love and power which, it would seem, do not extend to the victims of those who have committed evil.

After teaching that all who confess Jesus’ resurrection have unmerited forgiveness because of God’s love, with characteristic inconsistency Paul then insisted that they are accountable before God for their moral lapses (Romans 2:5-6, 14:12; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Galatians 6:7-8)….

Paul wrote to the Romans that those who reject God are drawn to wickedness, covetousness and sexual impurity which degrades the body and leads to shameful, unnatural sexual relations. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, gossip, slander, insolence, pride, disobedience and godlessness, he wrote. They are void of understanding, loyalty, natural affection, humility and mercy (Romans 1:28-32). Don’t be deceived, Paul wrote to the Corinthians, fornicators, idolators, adulterers, the effeminate, thieves, the covetous, drunkards, revilers and extortioners will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Kill your lusts, he wrote to the Colossians (3:5-6). It is for this that the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience.

Paul also claimed that he kept his body under subjection lest after preaching to others he should be disqualified himself (1 Corinthians 9:27). Notice the inconsistency -- that though justification (unmerited forgiveness) is free, Paul still feared he could lose it. In fact, Paul admitted outright that it is possible to lose God’s free gift of unmerited forgiveness when he warned his converts to continue in goodness lest they be cut off (Romans 11:22) a fact often overlooked by many who teach Paul’s theology today….

At Romans 9:10-13 Paul canceled free will. Concerning Rebecca’s twins, Paul pointed out that before they were born God told Rebecca that the elder son would serve the younger (referring to Genesis 25:20-26). Paul wrote that God said -- Jacob I have loved but Esau have I hated (referring to Malachi 1:2-3). Treating the Genesis quote as a decree rather than a prediction and the Malachi quote as a decree rather than a result of behavior, Paul then claimed that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy and hardens whomsoever He will harden (Romans 9:18).

Because of this rogue example Paul was faced with the question, why should God find fault if He designates certain people to do evil? In answer to this Paul claimed that the Potter has power over the clay and the clay shouldn’t question God (Romans 9:19-21) (and see Exodus 4:10-12 and Isaiah 29:15-16).…

Scholars bend themselves into all manner of verbal contortions to try to explain the notion Paul created that God capriciously chooses to make a free gift of salvation for a select few. It makes no sense in the face of Jesus’ teachings about reincarnation, free will, accountability and repentance. Scholars eventually decide that Paul’s salvation-for-a-predestined-few teaching is a mystery they can’t explain, rather than rejecting this obviously erroneous line of thought….

Every step of salvation, however long it takes, waits for each person’s free will choices. The invitation is eternal and God is forever faithful. It is we who decide when to be loyal to God and re-develop our relationship with God. Each time we choose, God responds. But He doesn’t override our free will and force salvation on us. God also doesn’t require us to do something we are unable to do. So, He doesn’t have to bestow salvation on us as if we are clay toys. We traded our birthright for selfishness, but we are designed to be able to reclaim it….

Those who teach grace-alone claim that the fear of punishment and hope of reward theology produces hopelessness in those who feel they can never measure up to God’s expectations. They say it is infinitely more comfortable to believe that Christ’s death makes it possible for them to continue to sin and still be granted salvation. But the purpose of religion isn’t to make us comfortable with sin – neither our own nor the breadth and depth of all those sins of others. The purpose of religion is for us to respond to our spirit’s desire to seek spiritual truth, face the pain of truth and, after taking corrective action, enjoy the peace of a challenge honestly met.

Jesus did not teach an impossible theology. Instead, he gave us a step by step guide all can follow to return to choosing God’s will first in our lives. It starts with being humble and confessing our errors. Then, one step at a time, as we absorb Jesus’ teachings and God’s rules into our lifestyle, and seek to perceive and choose God’s daily guidance, God leads us to how to live with love, respect, forgiveness and consideration towards one another and love and obedience to God….

Even though Paul wrote that converts to Christianity were justified (i.e., had unmerited forgiveness) for all their sins, he also firmly emphasized that all are held accountable for their behavior.

To the Romans Paul wrote, God will repay each person according to what they have done, and every one of us shall give account of himself to God (Romans 2:5-6, 14:12).

To the Corinthians Paul wrote that every man shall receive his own reward according to his own work, and that corruption cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 3:8, 6:9, 15:50). We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body according to what he has done, whether it is good or bad, Paul wrote (2 Corinthians 5:10).

Ever concerned about the influence of his converts’ former friends, Paul cautioned, bad company ruins good morals. Some people have no knowledge of God (1 Corinthians 15:33-34). After writing to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, and defining them, Paul also wrote to the Corinthians, come out from among them and be separate, says God. Don’t touch what is unclean and I will receive you. I will be your Father and you will be My sons and daughters (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).

For God has not called us for uncleanness, but in holiness, Paul wrote (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8). Don’t you know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Romans 8:5-9)?

Paul wrote to Colossians that whoever does wrong will receive for the wrong that he has done, for God is no respecter of persons, and to kill their lust, because that is why God’s wrath comes (Colossians 3:5-6, 25). He also prayed that they be worthy of God by doing every good work (Colossians 1:10).

To the Galatians Paul wrote, don’t be deceived. God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows is what he will reap. He who sows to his flesh will reap corruption of the flesh, but whoever sows to the spirit will of the spirit reap everlasting life (Galatians 6:7-8).
 

Right Divider

Body part
@soulquestion

The critique collapses under five major errors: it misdefines legal imputation versus moral guilt, ignores Christ’s explicit words concerning his own sacrificial death, confuses eternal standing with believer rewards, misapplies national dispensations to individual salvation, and wrongly turns Romans 9 into fatalism rather than God’s interactive, historical choices.

1. The Imputation of Sin and Abraham's Faith​

The critique claims Paul erred in Romans 4:15 and 5:13 by writing that sin is not imputed when there is no law. The argument assumes that because eternal moral standards existed, Paul claimed pre-law humanity committed no actual wrongs.
You can see the flaw when you read Romans 5:13–14 carefully. Paul states directly that sin was in the world before Moses. Death reigned from Adam to Moses precisely because humanity was spiritually separated from God.
The distinction Paul makes is between the presence of sin and its legal cataloging. To impute (ellogeo) is an accounting term meaning to enter into an official ledger as a specific debt. Before the codified Sinaitic covenant, men sinned against conscience and light, yet God did not charge them under a formal statutory code that carried the specific penalty of the curse.
When God commended Abraham in Genesis 26:5, God recognized Abraham's responsive obedience. Yet Genesis 15:6 settles the root cause of his acceptance: Abraham believed the Lord, and God counted it to him for righteousness. Abraham was justified decades before the law of Moses existed and before he was circumcised (Romans 4:9–11). Paul does not contradict Moses; he reads Genesis on its own terms.

2. The Human Heart and Romans 7​

The critique mocks Romans 7 by asking whether knowing a law compels someone to break it, accusing Paul of acting like an inconsistent salesman.
Every parent or supervisor observes this human trait daily. Place a wet paint sign on a bench, and people instantly feel the urge to touch the surface. Paul does not say the law causes sin; he explicitly affirms that the commandment is holy, just, and good (Romans 7:12).
Instead, fallen human flesh naturally resists external restrictions. The codified commandment brings latent rebellion to light. It demonstrates humanity's inability to produce inward purity through external commands. Far from a sales pitch, Paul provides a clear diagnosis of how legal prohibition exposes human weakness.

3. Blood Atonement in the Teaching of Jesus​

The critique asserts that Jesus never taught blood atonement or justification, claiming Paul invented forgiveness through Christ's death. It even introduces the alien claim that Jesus taught reincarnation, which contradicts Hebrews 9:27 ("it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment").
Jesus plainly connected his upcoming death to the forgiveness of sins:
  • In Matthew 20:28, Jesus declared that he came "to give his life a ransom for many."
  • At the Last Supper in Matthew 26:28, he said, "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
  • In John 3:14–15, Jesus compared himself to the serpent lifted up in the wilderness, stating that whoever believes in him should not perish.
Jesus operated during his earthly ministry under the law, calling the lost sheep of the house of Israel to repentance before the kingdom (Matthew 15:24). Yet his cross was always the planned purchase price. When Christ sent out his resurrected commission, the full significance of his finished work and shed blood became the foundation of all forgiveness. Paul did not invent the blood of Christ; he proclaimed its full accomplishment.

4. Free Gift Versus the Judgment Seat​

The critique claims Paul contradicts himself by declaring salvation a free gift while warning about accountability and good works in passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, 2 Corinthians 5:10, and Galatians 6:7–8.
You resolve this confusion by separating two distinct biblical realities:
  1. Your Standing (Justification): This is a free gift received by faith without the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28). You are saved from the penalty of sin by Christ’s blood alone.
  2. Your Walk and Stewardship (Evaluation): As a member of God's household, your daily walk matters. At the judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10), believers give an account of their service to receive or suffer the loss of rewards, crowns, and positions of authority (1 Corinthians 3:12–15).
When Paul lists wicked lifestyles in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, he reminds believers what their former unregenerate identity produced, stating immediately in verse 11: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified." In 1 Corinthians 9:27, when Paul mentions being a "castaway," the Greek word (adokimos) means disqualified from the race prize, not cast into hell. Accountability for your Christian walk never negates the unmerited nature of your initial justification.

5. Nations, Branches, and Human Response in Romans 9–11​

The critique argues that Romans 11:22 proves personal salvation can be rescinded, and that Romans 9 cancels human free will.
In Romans 11, Paul deals with corporate, dispensational groups, not individual believers losing their spiritual birth. The olive tree represents the place of God's earthly covenant privilege. Unbelieving Israel was broken off because of corporate unbelief, allowing Gentiles as a group to be grafted in. If the Gentile nations become proud and reject God, God will cut them off and restore Israel. This deals with world administrations, not the loss of personal salvation.
In Romans 9, Paul addresses God’s sovereign right to choose his channels of purpose in history. God chose Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau for lineages of promise, not for individual eternal damnation before birth.
When God says, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated," he speaks through Malachi centuries after both men lived, evaluating the nations that came from them. God chose to use Pharaoh's stubbornness after Pharaoh had already repeatedly hardened his own heart against God's commands (Exodus 8:15, 32). God acts with genuine freedom in time, responding to human decisions and utilizing even rebellion to demonstrate his mercy to all who believe.
 
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