Originally posted by 1Way
I agree with Clete. Where do we get the idea that children must understand their "training" ,,, that their "parents" gives them? Understanding the reason for punishment is another thing altogether, but according to scripture, training up a child is nowhere taught that the child must have intellectual understanding of their parents "training" techniques. The parents are the governors over the child, it is not an equal rights, equal agreement, mutual understanding, situation.
I would like to point out one thing that you said, and what I read from the book web page to demonstrate that I believe your feelings of anger may have gotten the best of you. Human emotions can sometimes effectively short-circuit our reasoning and objectivity. Consider. You present the case saying "it's OK to let a newborn cry just to try and prove to it that crying (which is their ONLY way of communication) is counterproductive."
You even argue by appealing to the baby's natural need to communicate by crying about urgent matters that only the parent can take care of. Yet contrary to your portrayal of what they are teaching, this is what the book actually says with numbered callouts added. (1)
This situation that they have in mind is NOT when the baby needs a diaper changed or any other genuine need. It's when the child simply wants to have it's way no matter what (selfishness). It may constantly want mommy's attention, it does not want to be left alone. So every day, probably every hour, mommy needs to pay attention to other things, go to the bathroom, cook, eat, clean house, etc., so who wins? The will of the baby or the will of the mother?
Does a baby know that it does not need to be held and pandered to all the time? It is precisely because of this lack of understanding and appropriateness that parents should instill self discipline in their babies so that the parents can attend to the things that they must in order to effectively function. Think of the double frustration of twins or the quadruple frustration of quadruplets if every child was the winner in this exact battle! If the children win at the earliest ages that their will dictates what happens simply by screaming loud enough, then the mother and the children will be miserable because it is not possible to pander after the constant whims of each child all the time. Same issue is at stake if there are 1 or 6 babies, love them all the same, one or 6, train self restraint.
And here is the clarification and is quite different from what you claimed they were promoting. They realize and promote that a baby's cry is the only voice to the outside world concerning authentic needs. That is NOT what this example of "counterproductive" crying is about. Instead, the child is being trained over the futility of simply acting selfish.
A vivid example of a baby's
selfish attention getting game
I've seen a baby who could not yet walk or talk, he was in between crawling but not yet at steady-standing stage. Suddenly he would cry out in a loud and high pitched scream as though in great or painful distress! :shocked: And then immediately stop crying! The baby's face was not towards the people in the room (he was working from stealth as he had no one's direct attention), and then he paused and slowly looked around to see if he gained the attention from the entire room that he expected and desired. And of course he did, everyone was completely silent and looking at him wondering what terrible thing just happened.
And then he smiled and laughed in a way that only a little baby could. It was quite the site, I will never forget it. Next the entire room was in laughter.
He caught us all off guard and got us laughing upon the pure idea of spontaneous interpersonal interest and contagious joy. He became the complete comedian that evening. But did the baby know when to stop, or how disturbing these unwarranted cries can be? No, so thankfully the parents corrected the child. That was an advanced game that child played, younger babies play more basic attention getting games.
Bob Enyart is not a normal/frequent member of this forum, I very much doubt that a PM nor an email will reach him. You really should call him during, or right after, a show, as I hear it's the best way to reach him, unless you go to his church or are a family member.
He's a very busy man.