Why the pre-trib rapture theory is false doctrine.
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
- Start date
Just chiming in: I listen to various end time teachers. I'm still hovering between mid and post ... but there is a post-trib ministry that breaks things down really convincingly. I enjoy the ministry started by Irvin Baxter. Do any of you listen to that Endtimes Ministry?
Tribulation is an English word for Xterrible times. Haven't we always had isolated tribulations and huge ones caused by nature and caused by enemies? Might a WWIII be a tribulation in which we might suffer? Do we jump to the everything being the Wrath of God??? THE End Time Tribulation?
No they don't. Paul could not be more clear. And a failure to separate Israel and the church leads to the misunderstanding.
Read Ezekiel 37 and see the difference. We go to him in the air. Israel is resurrected and placed in their land.
1The hand of the Lord came upon me and brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 Then He caused me to pass by them all around, and behold, there were very many in the open valley; and indeed they were very dry. 3 And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
Israel is cleansed as a nation. They must have faith plus works. Don't believe it? Read the Matthew-John.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
This is not the same as Paul telling us we go to him.
Daniel's 70th week is retold in Matthew 24 and Revelation. It is the "end times" that is correct.
Verse 12 Those in the first calling up from death and the grave are those from the people of Israel. This verse is talking about our literal earth when it specifically says that our Lord will place them in their OWN LAND. This idea of the raised from the dead to live again on earth leaves me with questions:
1.) Could they be part of a ruling class, as were the priests, the judges, and patriarchs of the tribes of Israel long ago, when our Lord Jesus returns to rule on earth for 1,000 years???
2.) How do we know that Christians are also raised/raptured at the same time in which God raises HIS people Israel and returns them to their land?
2.) How does the time line go for these events so that everything fits scripture?
1000 years' reign of Christ
Jesus's return to rule
all saints saved before the Lake of Fire
The Lake of Fire
Precisely
The scripture is the authority of all my answers. The Lord Jesus Christ said the 12 apostles will sit in judgment of the 12 tribes. Other tribulation saints will rule with him, as told in Revelation.
Because Paul said it is before, and it would be illogical for us to go to him in the air if he is coming back to earth, where he lands on the Mount of Olives. There is no need for us to go to him in your proposed scenario. Logic dictates a pre-trib rapture. In case you reject the man given the mystery of it who says we depart before the man of sin is revealed.
You mean like a chart timeline? Here is one. It is based on what the scripture says. Is that what you mean? After the departure of the church (rapture) you can just use Revelation if you are still here.