Figure it out. I think you play too many games with posters.
Theology Club: Why Will No One in the Neo-MAD Camp Address John 3:16?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Figure it out. I think you play too many games with posters.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You cannot show from the text where the gospel of Christ was preached to Cornelius in Acts 10! It's not there!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I have already figured it out. Here is what he preached to those in the synagogues:
"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).
The Jews who believed those truths were "born of God" when they BELIEVED what Paul preached to them:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).
Do you believed that the Jews who lived under the law were saved when they believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course it is there. Do you deny that Cornelius was saved when he believed the words which Peter spoke to him?
Cornelius believed that it is Jesus who is the Christ, the Son of God when he heard what Peter preached to him. That fact is indeed "good news" and anyone who believed those words were saved when they believed that good news of Christ. (Jn.20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).
heir
TOL Subscriber
Show it!
heir
TOL Subscriber
The gospel of Christ is not the WHO of Jesus Christ.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, sister.
Since 1 John 5:1 (KJV) is allegedly for the Body of Christ, one could believe that Jesus is the Christ yet deny 1 Cor 15:1-4 and still be in the Body...per Jerry.
It doesn't have to be so messy, as you and I will leave 1 John where it belongs, in the tribulation.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
1 John separates the men from the boys, and separates the women from the girls:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
It takes a lot of twisting to make this the Body of Christ, as we all fall short on a daily basis, and will continue to do so until the Rapture.
Yet they both spoke the same language...?
Your letting traditions of men cloud your understanding... You fail to understand everyone does not have the same role in the kingdom! James had his role... Paul had his role... they did as they were commanded!
Paul said... Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; :thumb:
You appear to be uninformed of this mystery! :think:
oly::sherlock:Paul
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:37-43).
When Cornelius heard those words he knew that it was the Lord Jesus who is the Christ. and at that moment he was saved by being "born of God":
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).
And it was indeed the "good news" of Christ that Jesus is the Christ and believing that "good news" (gospel) brings salvation you deny that that the good news of Christ spoken of in this verse is the "gospel of Christ":
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel (good news) of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
What was the good news of Christ which was preached to the Jews first and belief in that good news brought salvation?
Of course you will not answer!
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you believe that the words found at 1 John belong to the tribulation?
Those words were written many years after the present dispensation began.
And if you are right then John would have told them that the doctrines which he was preaching in that epistle were not for the present dispensation but instead for the time of the great tribulation.
But he said no such thing. In fact, none of the authors of the epistles beginning at Hebrews and continuing to Jude say a thing about the doctrine which they teach is not for the present dispensation of grace but instead for the time of the great tribulation.
Since during the tribulation period the law of Moses will be resumed then why would the author of Hebrews say the following if the law will be resumed during the tribulation period?:
"For there is verily an annulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did...By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament" (Heb.7:18-19,22).
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since you consider yourself an expert on the "good news" of Christ then what good news was preached to the Jews first and resulted in salvation to all the Jews who believed it?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:18).
Yet they both spoke the same language...?
Your letting traditions of men cloud your understanding... You fail to understand everyone does not have the same role in the kingdom! James had his role... Paul had his role... they did as they were commanded!
Paul said... Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; :thumb:
You appear to be uninformed of this mystery! :think:
Paul
Romans 11:25's "this mystery" is not Ephesians 3:4's "mystery of Christ."
Consider that you have perhaps confused promises because you have applied the reasoning of men "about" a thing.
Romans 11:26's "And so all Israel shall be saved" is not about Ephesians 3: 6's "promise."
Romans 11:26's "And so all Israel shall be saved" is, concerns that which Paul relates there is "as it is written."
No Mystery there "as it is written."
Don't believe me?
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
That is a 2nd Advent event - Isaiah 59:
17. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
18. According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Not 70AD either:
19. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
He wipes out their enemies...
20. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Jeremiah 31:
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,
saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
What is that - this "saying, Know the LORD"?
That is this - Deuteronomy 6:
4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5. And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
10. And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which
thou buildedst not,
11. And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;
He is the One Who will do for them what they could not do; including enabling them to both know, and keep His Law; from the least of them (children) to the greatest of them (their wisest)
Get off track as to what Romans 11:25's "this mystery" is and you can get off track as to the rest.
Romans 11:25's "this mystery" is the issue that during this time of Israel's Prophesied* hardening, God is doing something else - among the Gentiles, and "until the fulness of" what He is doing among the Gentiles "be come in."
*Psalm 37:
7. Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8. Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12. The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
13. The LORD shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since you consider yourself an expert on the "good news" of Christ then what good news was preached to the Jews first and resulted in salvation to all the Jews who believed it?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:18).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:37-43).
When Cornelius heard those words he knew that it was the Lord Jesus who is the Christ. and at that moment he was saved by being "born of God":
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).
And it was indeed the "good news" of Christ that Jesus is the Christ and believing that "good news" (gospel) brings salvation you deny that that the good news of Christ spoken of in this verse is the "gospel of Christ":
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel (good news) of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
What was the good news of Christ which was preached to the Jews first and belief in that good news brought salvation?
Of course you will not answer!
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV) is the gospel of Christ.
Romans 1:1-4 (KJV) is the gospel of God.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
This scripture says that Cornelius and his house already knew the LORD Jesus before Peter was sent to him.
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: )
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Lol
So all who reject MAD share the berean quote above?
How is that not an argument from absolute weakness? I mean a blanket statement like this? Come on fella.
Just messin with ya
If you really believed your theory of MAD you wouldn't be arguing about it still. Let it go bro. Free your mind��
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Glad to see you back!
I am showing that this particular teaching within the Neo-MADcommunity is in error.
I am trying to show that the teaching of the Neo-MADs is not a true reflection of the teaching of the giants of the original MAD, Sir Robert Anderson and J.C. O'Hair.
From - Berean Bible Society - https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org -
Part 2: Gleanings From the Book of Acts silence of God
Posted By Pastor J. C. O'Hair On October 5, 1935 @ 11:30 am In 1935.10 - Bible Study For Bereans - October 1935.
The following from that document, is by J.C. O'Hair:
According to your fool notions, Jerry, one of those two men would have to fall under your Neo-Mad nonsense.
And "The Silence of God" is Cessasionist.
While, O'Hair, on the other hand, had believed that Divine Intervention is still in operation in some form.
Which of those two men is Neo, you buffoon.