I know what Jesus teaches very well.
I don't advocate world's philosophy or practice as you both have been doing. That's why your teaching is follow the crowed. It is of the world, not of Jesus.
You are Divine as well as you're own healer when you get past your old self.
- Thread starter Zeke
- Start date
- Status
I know what Jesus teaches very well.
I don't advocate world's philosophy or practice as you both have been doing. That's why your teaching is follow the crowed. It is of the world, not of Jesus.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Pacifism gone bonkers.......
Pacifism gone bonkers.......
:doh:
No one can prove a Jesus existed as the gospel stories describe, much less what words are actually his own, so we can only assume certain teachings ascribed are really his, we dont know. At the end of the day all we have is the teaching itself to judge as to its validity or worth as regards truth, but conclusions can change and be affected by certain situational contexts, so its not always a "one shoe fits all" system.
The bible is full of holy wars, murder and bloodshed, so you might as well toss it, and use the Jefferson Bible if going for an ethical and moral teaching of Jesus approach, although I dont know Jefferson's position on war. Also not every saying of Jesus was lovey-dovey so its a matter of cherry-picking.
Furthermore, see the Bhagavad Gita,... Krishna's discourse with Prince Arjuna. In this story God allows for war between nations as dutiful service. In such scenarios killing is lawful within the rules of war. Krishna then lays out the deeper truths of yoga, and the immortality of the soul, showing that souls cannot die by physical death anyways. So you have to consider alot more than just standard rule of pacifism as an "end all be all", since there is often alot more to consider.
Re: self-defense. Would you stand by and let a person harm or kill your loved ones. Would you just sit there if you knew your life was in grave danger....and let yourself be killed, if you could prevent it? Back to different situational contexts affecting one's actions.
Pacifism gone bonkers.......
:doh:
No one can prove a Jesus existed as the gospel stories describe, much less what words are actually his own, so we can only assume certain teachings ascribed are really his, we dont know. At the end of the day all we have is the teaching itself to judge as to its validity or worth as regards truth, but conclusions can change and be affected by certain situational contexts, so its not always a "one shoe fits all" system.
The bible is full of holy wars, murder and bloodshed, so you might as well toss it, and use the Jefferson Bible if going for an ethical and moral teaching of Jesus approach, although I dont know Jefferson's position on war. Also not every saying of Jesus was lovey-dovey so its a matter of cherry-picking.
Furthermore, see the Bhagavad Gita,... Krishna's discourse with Prince Arjuna. In this story God allows for war between nations as dutiful service. In such scenarios killing is lawful within the rules of war. Krishna then lays out the deeper truths of yoga, and the immortality of the soul, showing that souls cannot die by physical death anyways. So you have to consider alot more than just standard rule of pacifism as an "end all be all", since there is often alot more to consider.
Re: self-defense. Would you stand by and let a person harm or kill your loved ones. Would you just sit there if you knew your life was in grave danger....and let yourself be killed, if you could prevent it? Back to different situational contexts affecting one's actions.
You see, this is what I mean. you follow world's standard, not Jesus'.
I don't have to kill anyone to defend myself or others.
I don't carry around weapons or strong enough to kill anyone.
Zeke
Well-known member
Different types of death far worse than physical death, you have the choice to not defend your family which is fine but don't feel above others who chose to, killing for corporate governments is unjustifiable we agree on that.
Zeke
Well-known member
The name of Christianity is not and really has never been Christianity at all. The thing accepted for Christianity has turned out to be something else very unlike it, a frightfully deceptive false substitution. Thousands have found it in every age unacceptable, repelling, repugnant to every instinct of logic and sanity. Among those who have found it inhospitable and insufferable to their natural instincts of both reason and good were Emerson, Lincoln and Edison, in the American scene. Now, as in the days of its foundation it is, as a popular religion, maintained by the less intelligent majority and disdained by the truly learned and intelligent, who sanction it in a patronizing way as being good for the ignorant, but hardly adequate for themselves. Its popular vogue is deemed useful to the orderly status of society, as it tends to hold the masses to a tolerable measure of self-restraint from criminality and a fair level of human decency. SHADOW OF THE THIRD CENTURY, KUHN.
The author wishes to repudiate the suggestion that he is inspired by a hostile animus against Christianity. He confesses to a natural "animus" against bigotry, superstition, narrow hatreds, persecution, tyranny, war, murder, slaughter, lying and sickening hypocrisy, the more so when they are perpetrated in the name and under the disguise of "holy religion." Since Christian history is in the main a record of these horrible things, he is free to express his dislike of them. But these things are no part of a true Christianity, and so it can not be charged that he is prejudiced against that which is true Christianity.
The author wishes to repudiate the suggestion that he is inspired by a hostile animus against Christianity. He confesses to a natural "animus" against bigotry, superstition, narrow hatreds, persecution, tyranny, war, murder, slaughter, lying and sickening hypocrisy, the more so when they are perpetrated in the name and under the disguise of "holy religion." Since Christian history is in the main a record of these horrible things, he is free to express his dislike of them. But these things are no part of a true Christianity, and so it can not be charged that he is prejudiced against that which is true Christianity.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Enigmas.........
Enigmas.........
Still cherry picking,....the god of the OT ordered the slaughter of whole cities,... men, women, children, infants, livestock, etc. Is this the same god Jesus worshipped and called his Father? These under Gods command were supposedly fully justified to pillage, kill and destroy .....all "for the Lord".
Holy scripture of different world religions allow for killing in certain circumstances, regardless of personal opinions on the matter.
The boy Jesus of some apocryphal texts was not a nice little boy using his powers rather haphazardly, cursing and killing, while Jesus in other contexts is a ferocious warrior-king, garbed with a robe dipped in blood, judging and making war. But even in the canonized writings, he comes with a sword, kills a fig tree due to no fault of its own, drives the money changers out of the temple, etc. A nice lovey-dovey turn the other cheek Jesus?
Granted some passages can be interpreted figuratively, but there you have it.
It looks like what is going on is people choosing what 'version' of Jesus best suits their preferences, interests and belief-system. Nothing new under the sun
Enigmas.........
Still cherry picking,....the god of the OT ordered the slaughter of whole cities,... men, women, children, infants, livestock, etc. Is this the same god Jesus worshipped and called his Father? These under Gods command were supposedly fully justified to pillage, kill and destroy .....all "for the Lord".
Holy scripture of different world religions allow for killing in certain circumstances, regardless of personal opinions on the matter.
The boy Jesus of some apocryphal texts was not a nice little boy using his powers rather haphazardly, cursing and killing, while Jesus in other contexts is a ferocious warrior-king, garbed with a robe dipped in blood, judging and making war. But even in the canonized writings, he comes with a sword, kills a fig tree due to no fault of its own, drives the money changers out of the temple, etc. A nice lovey-dovey turn the other cheek Jesus?
Granted some passages can be interpreted figuratively, but there you have it.
It looks like what is going on is people choosing what 'version' of Jesus best suits their preferences, interests and belief-system. Nothing new under the sun
Still cherry picking,....the god of the OT ordered the slaughter of whole cities,... men, women, children, infants, livestock, etc. Is this the same god Jesus worshipped and called his Father? These under Gods command were supposedly fully justified to pillage, kill and destroy .....all "for the Lord".
Holy scripture of different world religions allow for killing in certain circumstances, regardless of personal opinions on the matter.
The boy Jesus of some apocryphal texts was not a nice little boy using his powers rather haphazardly, cursing and killing, while Jesus in other contexts is a ferocious warrior-king, garbed with a robe dipped in blood, judging and making war. But even in the canonized writings, he comes with a sword, kills a fig tree due to no fault of its own, drives the money changers out of the temple, etc. A nice lovey-dovey turn the other cheek Jesus?
Granted some passages can be interpreted figuratively, but there you have it.
It looks like what is going on is people choosing what 'version' of Jesus best suits their preferences, interests and belief-system. Nothing new under the sun
good day, blessings.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Meta-tations
Meta-tations
Not familiar with Lynn Hayes, but just a few minutes in...and some great truth-insights - will check out more later.
Indeed,...saying we are 'divine' is NOT saying we are God Almighty, as if we are the totality or finality of 'God' in toto,.... for we could never be that in this individualized 'form', albiet we are 'God' in the sense of being his imaged offspring and creative expression, in as much as the light, spirit, essence, mind and soul of God is expressing IN us....and AS us (this must all be spiritually/metaphysically discerned and related, both essentially and figuratively). - otherwise you get a muddled rejection from literalists/materialists who are wholly bound to carnality, and cannot see beyond the matter of their own inertia or ignorance.
One can only say 'we are divine' ONLY from the view-point of divinity within his own being, on any ontological, potential or creative level. If you're a theist or spiritualist of any kind, you trust that our very existence and all its creative powers exist, because of Spirit. Spirit is One and All. There is no other 'source', 'life' or 'vitality' existing, but THAT.
Our discernment here is in the spiritual and intellectual, - however these all apply within their own dimensional context. All is a translation of energy and consciousness, - all is God including and concluding Itself, within creation. This is all that is being and becoming, transformationally speaking. We identify 'God' as the pure original light of consciousness and source-energy from whence all creation is born, sustained and continues its play of potentials. Nothing exists outside of this Infinite ALL,...since the All is all there will ever BE (no matter differentials or descriptions of time or space).
All the potencies and actuals of SPIRIT inhere in man, so in our communion and engagement with God, we are co-creating with Spirit in every moment,...as each seed of thought, word and action is consequentially unfolding within various sectors of the law of karma, all seed-forms creating after their own kind. All these laws and principles inhere in Nature herself, extending in every individual point of consciousness, in space and time, bearing their own affections by the laws that govern movement,...cause and effect. In this sense, we engage existence both as creators and creations.
All is energy, but modified, modulated and continuously transforming.
Meta-tations
Not familiar with Lynn Hayes, but just a few minutes in...and some great truth-insights
- will check out more later. Indeed,...saying we are 'divine' is NOT saying we are God Almighty, as if we are the totality or finality of 'God' in toto,.... for we could never be that in this individualized 'form', albiet we are 'God' in the sense of being his imaged offspring and creative expression, in as much as the light, spirit, essence, mind and soul of God is expressing IN us....and AS us
(this must all be spiritually/metaphysically discerned and related, both essentially and figuratively). - otherwise you get a muddled rejection from literalists/materialists who are wholly bound to carnality, and cannot see beyond the matter of their own inertia or ignorance.One can only say 'we are divine' ONLY from the view-point of divinity within his own being, on any ontological, potential or creative level. If you're a theist or spiritualist of any kind, you trust that our very existence and all its creative powers exist, because of Spirit. Spirit is One and All. There is no other 'source', 'life' or 'vitality' existing, but THAT.
Our discernment here is in the spiritual and intellectual, - however these all apply within their own dimensional context. All is a translation of energy and consciousness, - all is God including and concluding Itself, within creation. This is all that is being and becoming, transformationally speaking. We identify 'God' as the pure original light of consciousness and source-energy from whence all creation is born, sustained and continues its play of potentials. Nothing exists outside of this Infinite ALL,...since the All is all there will ever BE (no matter differentials or descriptions of time or space).
All the potencies and actuals of SPIRIT inhere in man, so in our communion and engagement with God, we are co-creating with Spirit in every moment,...as each seed of thought, word and action is consequentially unfolding within various sectors of the law of karma, all seed-forms creating after their own kind. All these laws and principles inhere in Nature herself, extending in every individual point of consciousness, in space and time, bearing their own affections by the laws that govern movement,...cause and effect. In this sense, we engage existence both as creators and creations.
All is energy, but modified, modulated and continuously transforming.
Zeke
Well-known member
Not familiar with Lynn Hayes, but just a few minutes in...and some great truth-insights
Indeed,...saying we are 'divine' is NOT saying we are God Almighty, as if we are the totality or finality of 'God' in toto,.... for we could never be that in this individualized 'form', albiet we are 'God' in the sense of being his imaged offspring and creative expression, in as much as the light, spirit, essence, mind and soul of God is expressing IN us....and AS us
One can only say 'we are divine' ONLY from the view-point of divinity within his own being, on any ontological, potential or creative level. If you're a theist or spiritualist of any kind, you trust that our very existence and all its creative powers exist, because of Spirit. Spirit is One and All. There is no other 'source', 'life' or 'vitality' existing, but THAT.
Our discernment here is in the spiritual and intellectual, - however these all apply within their own dimensional context. All is a translation of energy and consciousness, - all is God including and concluding Itself, within creation. This is all that is being and becoming, transformationally speaking. We identify 'God' as the pure original light of consciousness and source-energy from whence all creation is born, sustained and continues its play of potentials. Nothing exists outside of this Infinite ALL,...since the All is all there will ever BE (no matter differentials or descriptions of time or space).
All the potencies and actuals of SPIRIT inhere in man, so in our communion and engagement with God, we are co-creating with Spirit in every moment,...as each seed of thought, word and action is consequentially unfolding within various sectors of the law of karma, all seed-forms creating after their own kind. All these laws and principles inhere in Nature herself, extending in every individual point of consciousness, in space and time, bearing their own affections by the laws that govern movement,...cause and effect. In this sense, we engage existence both as creators and creations.
All is energy, but modified, modulated and continuously transforming.
He was a traditional preacher for his first few years then he woke up to a more excellent way that freed his heart from that dead letter dead end.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
concluding light..................
concluding light..................
~*~*~
Interesting how that within consciousness itself, is a reflective quality, a mirrored psychology, so that when we consider 'God',...is it not 'God' merely reflecting upon himself, although thru the lens of an indidividualized point of consciousness in space conditioned by time?
Again, there are some who do accept that we are 'God', since God is One, and God is All,...this understood from the point of view of pure energy, spirit, consciousness,...from God's view, which includes all points of view simultaneously. Add the concept of infinity, and all points becomes transcended, while included in the conclusion of All That IS.
View attachment 26250
All life is a conclusion of consciousness
concluding light..................
~*~*~
Interesting how that within consciousness itself, is a reflective quality, a mirrored psychology, so that when we consider 'God',...is it not 'God' merely reflecting upon himself, although thru the lens of an indidividualized point of consciousness in space conditioned by time?
Again, there are some who do accept that we are 'God', since God is One, and God is All,...this understood from the point of view of pure energy, spirit, consciousness,...from God's view, which includes all points of view simultaneously. Add the concept of infinity, and all points becomes transcended, while included in the conclusion of All That IS.
View attachment 26250
All life is a conclusion of consciousness
Zeke
Well-known member
~*~*~
Interesting how that within consciousness itself, is a reflective quality, a mirrored psychology, so that when we consider 'God',...is it not 'God' merely reflecting upon himself, although thru the lens of an indidividualized point of consciousness in space conditioned by time?
Again, there are some who do accept that we are 'God', since God is One, and God is All,...this understood from the point of view of pure energy, spirit, consciousness,...from God's view, which includes all points of view simultaneously. Add the concept of infinity, and all points becomes transcended, while included in the conclusion of All That IS.
View attachment 26250
All life is a conclusion of consciousness
The root of traditionalism runs pretty deep so the unworthy programming downloaded into their conscience blocks anything that would suggest otherwise, brilliant form of mind control used by the worlds ruling class that needed working class subjected with the carrot and stick psychosis, certainly mimicked in the christian exoteric theologies of the west, a perverse view of the infinites connection to man's conscience awareness of life.
The natural order has been replaced with artificial intelligence that has taken over the minds of those susceptible to mass hypnosis especially through nationalism/patriotism hiding behind religious authority in bed with political interest that they obey come hell or high water, blindly support Democide then go to church and sing Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world, well we know what some doctrines think about the limited coverage of the term all, so maybe they sing most of the children.
I have a sense the Democide they backed and help sow on others will be reaping them shortly if they don't wake up and join the living.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Zero-point infinity full-blown........
Zero-point infinity full-blown........
Perhaps, my fellow cosmonaut
We must along with Emerson, hitch our wagon to a star
We are all made of stardust, and share one universal Spirit. All is one.
Also 'God' is just a word,....all we know about anything is what perception and awareness grants, and much of that beyond 'pure awareness' is relative, distorted, limited, conditioned, circumscribed by point of view, subject to change.
As all that is of God in us is allowed to reach its full potential and glory, God becomes all in all (in reality God already is all in all); the knowledge of divinity fills our soul and radiates only God.
As God looks out from his own Being (thru the aperture of any soul or individual point of consciousness), all there is, is God....because there is no other awareness in which any-thing could be or appear. The allness of God includes all, is all.
No 'God', 'divinity' or 'religious experience' exists to 'you' outside of 'you'. This self-evident truth proves the only 'space' or 'time' where and when 'God' IS. - this goes without saying, further reflecting the fundamentals of classical theism, as the fullness of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. Here, now...All is.....Now, here...is All
Zero and infinity are fully potentialized forever, here and now
Zero-point infinity full-blown........
Perhaps, my fellow cosmonaut
We must along with Emerson, hitch our wagon to a star
We are all made of stardust, and share one universal Spirit. All is one.
Also 'God' is just a word,....all we know about anything is what perception and awareness grants, and much of that beyond 'pure awareness' is relative, distorted, limited, conditioned, circumscribed by point of view, subject to change.
As all that is of God in us is allowed to reach its full potential and glory, God becomes all in all (in reality God already is all in all); the knowledge of divinity fills our soul and radiates only God.
As God looks out from his own Being (thru the aperture of any soul or individual point of consciousness), all there is, is God....because there is no other awareness in which any-thing could be or appear. The allness of God includes all, is all.
No 'God', 'divinity' or 'religious experience' exists to 'you' outside of 'you'. This self-evident truth proves the only 'space' or 'time' where and when 'God' IS. - this goes without saying, further reflecting the fundamentals of classical theism, as the fullness of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. Here, now...All is.....Now, here...is All
Zero and infinity are fully potentialized forever, here and now
Zeke
Well-known member
Perhaps, my fellow cosmonaut
We must along with Emerson, hitch our wagon to a star
We are all made of stardust, and share one universal Spirit. All is one.
Also 'God' is just a word,....all we know about anything is what perception and awareness grants, and much of that beyond 'pure awareness' is relative, distorted, limited, conditioned, circumscribed by point of view, subject to change.
As all that is of God in us is allowed to reach its full potential and glory, God becomes all in all (in reality God already is all in all); the knowledge of divinity fills our soul and radiates only God.
As God looks out from his own Being (thru the aperture of any soul or individual point of consciousness), all there is, is God....because there is no other awareness in which any-thing could be or appear. The allness of God includes all, is all.
No 'God', 'divinity' or 'religious experience' exists to 'you' outside of 'you'. This self-evident truth proves the only 'space' or 'time' where and when 'God' IS. - this goes without saying, further reflecting the fundamentals of classical theism, as the fullness of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience. Here, now...All is.....Now, here...is All
Zero and infinity are fully potentialized forever, here and now
The wakening/sprouting/birth/unfolding/rising etc...... preceded by a metaphoric state referred to as darkness the length of that incubation/sleep/death etc... is dependant on other metamorphic conditions hidden in dark sayings from the first born of flesh by myriads/sundry ways in symbolic portrayals, some follow seasonal/times/feast/new moons/days, etc........ influenced by blessing or curse determines the stages/rate of spiritual growth into longer periods of darkness/exoteric letter or light/esoteric spirit.
We see this waking phenomenon pictured in dark vs light duplicity by the use of jew and gentile for the dual nature in man to be made one Eph 2:11-22 reads like two distinct groups and baffles the flesh to read it spiritually Gal 3:28, 4:21-28 is the same story of duplicity in man, the flesh reads it as literal history keeping its light dim as they sit in darkness, the spirit reads with its light, the flesh reads it with tradition voiding its light, they can read Luke 17:21, 1Cor 3:16, 2Cor 3:6, and goes on looking in the dead letter/historized for another exoteric kingdom and temple to come with fleshly observation, that blindness is epidemic here, blinded to the glorious paradox of being Gal 4:1, but not realizing who and what that makes them.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
For God's sake ........
For God's sake ........
Yes,
All reality however perceived or realized is done so only in consciousness, subjectively translated within any given context including all terms and qualifications related or assumed.
The Christ is either an intellectual concept or living principle or presence or both depending on the mind concerned. It only means anything to the one perceiving its intended or assumed meaning. IT is no-thing, unless some-thing is assumed.
Even 'God' is just a word, beyond what it symbolizes. It is therefore just as much a creation of consciousness, as consciousness is assumed to be creation of said 'God', so that ultimately Consciousness reigns as the universal matrix and arbiter of reality, from which all existence and creation inheres in and springs from, being the essence from all defined substance and form derives.
We are not only of IT, but are individual extensions, permutations, expressions, personifications, offsprings of IT. IT is All There Is, and all there is involves and evolves within IT. There is no other, but that One, the infinite One. None besides IT can ever be, because IT is the source of all be-ing and be-coming.
When this Pure Awareness is asked if any other God exists, IT can only respond that IT only knows It-Self. I Am that - there is no "I" or "am" outside IT.
We could go on,....but this ought to kick-start one's own God-consciousness to recognize its own reflection. God is light.
For God's sake ........
Yes,
All reality however perceived or realized is done so only in consciousness, subjectively translated within any given context including all terms and qualifications related or assumed.
The Christ is either an intellectual concept or living principle or presence or both depending on the mind concerned. It only means anything to the one perceiving its intended or assumed meaning. IT is no-thing, unless some-thing is assumed.
Even 'God' is just a word, beyond what it symbolizes. It is therefore just as much a creation of consciousness, as consciousness is assumed to be creation of said 'God', so that ultimately Consciousness reigns as the universal matrix and arbiter of reality, from which all existence and creation inheres in and springs from, being the essence from all defined substance and form derives.
We are not only of IT, but are individual extensions, permutations, expressions, personifications, offsprings of IT. IT is All There Is, and all there is involves and evolves within IT. There is no other, but that One, the infinite One. None besides IT can ever be, because IT is the source of all be-ing and be-coming.
When this Pure Awareness is asked if any other God exists, IT can only respond that IT only knows It-Self. I Am that
- there is no "I" or "am" outside IT.We could go on,....but this ought to kick-start one's own God-consciousness to recognize its own reflection. God is light.
Zeke
Well-known member
Easter is about you, a Divine seed with the power to rise again from within Luke 17:21, 1Cor 3:16, nothing evil about that regenerative process from fall to it rising again, a miraculous esoteric tale perverted by exoteric reading. 2Cor 3:6 the only divide in scripture that opens the blind eyes.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
I think it wonderful to dive into the whole question of 'God', or divinity.....since we cannot even prove a 'God' exists, while existence itself is self-evident because of 'consciousness', so that the fundamental medium of reality, thru which any-thing or any-being can exist,...is consciousness
There is no 'God' to be known, or no 'God' that is even knowable, beyond the light of consciousness itself, which is the knower
There is no 'God' to be known, or no 'God' that is even knowable, beyond the light of consciousness itself, which is the knower
Zeke
Well-known member
I think it wonderful to dive into the whole question of 'God', or divinity.....since we cannot even prove a 'God' exists, while existence itself is self-evident because of 'consciousness', so that the fundamental medium of reality, thru which any-thing or any-being can exist,...is consciousness
There is no 'God' to be known, or no 'God' that is even knowable, beyond the light of consciousness itself, which is the knower
It seems like the end of existence when that perception is given thought, absolute infinity is another bottomless pit of possibilities that awaits, another dream perhaps.
- Status