Zakath agreed to give Enyart rights to Battle Royale VII

[Zakath]

Ohh, I've been called a "shameless atheist" by a scoundrel like Bob Enyart. I'm cut to the quick!

:darwinsm:

So tell us Bob, how much money have you made shamelessly selling my material without even having the grace to ask my permission first?

 

[Servo]

So tell us Bob, how much money have you made shamelessly selling my material without even having the grace to ask my permission first?

Rocky the squirrel sums up this argument:

"Again?"

 

[Zakath]

Rocky the squirrel sums up this argument:

"Again?"

Yup. It's worth asking everytime Enyart brings it up until he answers...

Financial accountability is traditionally an issue for folks in his line of work.

 

[Granite]

Yup. It's worth asking everytime Enyart brings it up until he answers...

Financial accountability is traditionally an issue for folks in his line of work.

We don't talk about that.:noid:

It's true though, you wanna sour a discussion or shut somebody up, bring up the subject of the minister's payroll.

 

[Zakath]

We don't talk about that.:noid:

It's true though, you wanna sour a discussion or shut somebody up, bring up the subject of the minister's payroll.

The vast majority of church members haven't the slightest idea what their clergy are paid, how they are otherwise compensated, or how the church income is actually spent; or the income from "ministries" to which they contribute.

Whatever one believes about the subject of Christians and money, I think it's poor stewardship for Christians to be so ignorant.

 

[Granite]

The vast majority of church members haven't the slightest idea what their clergy are paid, how they are otherwise compensated, or how the church income is actually spent; or the income from "ministries" to which they contribute.

Whatever one believes about the subject of Christians and money, I think it's poor stewardship for Christians to be so ignorant.

Most seem to think it's bad form to ask questions about these matters.

 

[Zakath]

Most seem to think it's bad form to ask questions about these matters.

That's one of the reasons they're called :sheep:. They exist to be fleeced.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yup. It's worth asking everytime Enyart brings it up until he answers...

Financial accountability is traditionally an issue for folks in his line of work.

Zakath... you are like a little dog barking at a truck that ran over your leg. :dog:

 

[Zakath]

Zakath... you are like a little dog barking at a truck that ran over your leg. :dog:

Since you don't know who I actually am, if it makes you happier to think so, go right ahead...

 

[Lighthouse]

Seeing as how that Battle Royale is public information, being posted on a public web forum, the owner of the web forum is the only person who has any authority over whether or not it's sold. But I'm guessing Zakath has never asked Knight if he could sell copies as well. I wonder why that is.:think:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Seeing as how that Battle Royale is public information, being posted on a public web forum, the owner of the web forum is the only person who has any authority over whether or not it's sold. But I'm guessing Zakath has never asked Knight if he could sell copies as well. I wonder why that is.:think:

That's true.

 

[Jefferson]

Seeing as how that Battle Royale is public information, being posted on a public web forum, the owner of the web forum is the only person who has any authority over whether or not it's sold. But I'm guessing Zakath has never asked Knight if he could sell copies as well. I wonder why that is.:think:

That pretty well sums it up.

 

[Bob Enyart]

Zakath: Memory or Character?

Zakath: Memory or Character?

So tell us Bob, how much money have you made shamelessly selling my material without even having the grace to ask my permission first?

Zakath, probably not as much as I would have if you hadn't bailed out because you and your position were falling apart. It would have been more fun and informative if you would have had the courage to meet your commitment to complete Battle Royale VII.

As you recall, I made it clear before we began the debate that I would only do it if we would both agreed to give each other full copyright use of the debate so that either or both of us could distribute or publish it afterward. This was my one requirement, which was very important to me, because otherwise I waste time debating atheists and evolutionists only to have them wish the debate never happened and hope it disappears into oblivion. Knight (our TOL webmaster) confirms that you agreed to my requirement. Also, at the time I didn't know you other than that you were an atheist; and now I also know that you are a liar. Knight also tells me that he has specifically discussed this agreement with you since BR VII, and that it's not your memory that is defective, but your character.

-Bob Enyart

 

[Servo]

How much money did Zakath make on the TOL BRVII T-shirt that I purchased?
:chuckle:

 

[Bob Enyart]

Full Disclosure: Now or Later...

Full Disclosure: Now or Later...

Yup. It's worth asking [about Enyart's income from BRVII] everytime Enyart brings it up until he answers...
Financial accountability is traditionally an issue for folks in his line of work.

And then in hopes of making his baseless smear and accusation seem principled:

The vast majority of church members haven't the slightest idea what their clergy are paid, how they are otherwise compensated, or how the church income is actually spent; or the income from "ministries" to which they contribute.
Whatever one believes about the subject of Christians and money, I think it's poor stewardship for Christians to be so ignorant.

For the 14 years that I've been on TV and/or radio, whenever a caller has asked on the air how much I make, I've answered clearly. When journalists have asked, I've given them full access to my books, and always offer my Tax Returns to journalists. (Details of our revenue breakdown, products, donations, etc., have been reported in print by in Denver.) Since I began pastoring Denver Bible Church, my family income has hovered around $55k to $65k, approximately half of that coming from pastoring the church and the other half from hosting and running Bob Enyart Live.

As for Zakath's smear about Christians in general regarding their pastor's salaries, virtually all churches are 501(C)3s and their books are available to the public through the IRS. Most churches that I have been involved with either have open business meetings, or systematically make their finances very readily available to anyone interested. Next time Zakath goes to an Atheist Group Therapy session, he should ask the counsellor his annual income. Or when he buys that "I LOVE Abortion" t-shirt, he should ask the vendor, and then the abortionist, what they make.

As for Zakath's claim specifically that: "The vast majority of church members haven't the slightest idea what their clergy are paid," 90% of churches have fewer than 100 members. And extrapolating from my 32 years experience in churches across America, I'd bet that "the vast majority" of the members of those churches know that their pastors are not making a killing in the job (unless you count methaporically slaying an occasional atheist). Zakath's indiscriminate smear that pastors in general are fleecing their flocks just provides cover, as in crying wolf, for the ones that are truly robbing their members.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

As you recall, I made it clear before we began the debate that I would only do it if we would both agreed to give each other full copyright use of the debate so that either or both of us could distribute or publish it afterward. This was my one requirement, which was very important to me, because otherwise I waste time debating atheists and evolutionists only to have them wish the debate never happened and hope it disappears into oblivion. Knight (our TOL webmaster) confirms that you agreed to my requirement. Also, at the time I didn't know you other than that you were an atheist; and now I also know that you are a liar. Knight also tells me that he has specifically discussed this agreement with you since BR VII, and that it's not your memory that is defective, but your character.

-Bob Enyart

If I recall... some months after the BR VII slaughter Zakath was making similar claims that he had not made any prior agreements to the battle, and if my memory serves me correct I posted Zakaths actual PM's for all to see where Zakath in fact agreed to the terms of the battle. After I made this agreement public Zakath mysteriously disappeared again for several months. :think:

 

[Bob Enyart]

Eternity: Smoking or Non?

Eternity: Smoking or Non?

If I recall... some months after the BR VII slaughter Zakath was making similar claims that he had not made any prior agreements to the battle, and if my memory serves me correct I posted Zakaths actual PM's for all to see where Zakath in fact agreed to the terms of the battle. After I made this agreement public Zakath mysteriously disappeared again for several months. :think:

TOL has changed format since then, and every so often the boards have been refreshed, so that old posts sometimes end up in the bit bucket. If anyone has a copy of this, please post it here or email it to EnyartBob@aol.com. Thanks, -Bob

 

[Crow]

If I recall... some months after the BR VII slaughter Zakath was making similar claims that he had not made any prior agreements to the battle, and if my memory serves me correct I posted Zakaths actual PM's for all to see where Zakath in fact agreed to the terms of the battle. After I made this agreement public Zakath mysteriously disappeared again for several months. :think:

From the Rules posted prior to the actual BRVII, my understanding is that BR material is the property of tOL, who may permit whoever they wish to publish the BR in whole or part, per rule addition#8. The rules post was last edited May 20, 2003, and therefore was complete and public prior to the start of BRVII.

 

[Bob Enyart]

Doubly Justified

Doubly Justified

Crow, thanks for bringing Zakath's attention back to Rule Addition 8.

From the Rules posted prior to the actual BRVII, my understanding is that BR material is the property of tOL, who may permit whoever they wish to publish the BR in whole or part, per rule addition#8. The rules post was last edited May 20, 2003, and therefore was complete and public prior to the start of BRVII.

"RULE ADDITION #8: By agreeing to participate in a Battle Royale you also agree to allow your Battle to be reprinted or reused in full or in part by TheologyOnLine and it's various entities. In short... Battle Royales belong to TheologyOnLine and can be reprinted only with prior approval from TheologyOnLine."

Even beyond this however, I specifically obtained Zakath's agreement. But still (as it goes to the exposure of Zakath's character), if anyone has those PMs posted by Knight after BR VII, please have them resurface. Regarding the upcoming BR IX, both opponents have agreed to sign copyright assisgnments to each other and to TOL, but since Zakath keeps his identity secret lurking only in the dark as he does, this has not been an option, unless of course he'd like to come into the light and drop this one particular lie. Thanks, -Bob Enyart

 

[Zakath]

I go out of town for the weekend and all kinds of things turn up...

...since Zakath keeps his identity secret lurking only in the dark as he does, this has not been an option, unless of course he'd like to come into the light and drop this one particular lie...

It's a web forum, Mr. Enyart. I maintain my anonymity to protect my family's privacy. Many of the posters here post anonymously, including a number of the moderators. Over the years I've posted here I've received more than one threat of physical violence against my family from former TOL posters, who also appeared to be posting anonymously. I'm certainly not interested in exposing my family to potential harm or having picketers showing up in front of my doorstep, all so you can garner a few extra dollars...

If the responsible party at TOL wishes to give me equivalent copyright permission to yours, to publish the material you posted on TOL during our debate (and hence gave up rights to, if I'm reading your and Knight's posts correctly), he can avoid all the issues of TOL's message pruning by sending the permission to the email address he has on file for me...

A simple solution to the question at hand.