Is White Privilege Real?

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I have. I fit a certain profile when I was young and male and driving a car that looked fast. Or a motorcycle.



I was never stupid enough to disrespect them, much less resist arrest.

I guess that my white privilege was that I was taught not to do that stupid stuff.

Here's the neat thing though - black mothers and fathers can teach their children those things too. :)

And plenty of them do...

Oh, and lest we forget, you drive around when drunk by your own admission and you ain't that young anymore are you?

:freak:
 

quip

BANNED
Banned
I have. I fit a certain profile when I was young and male and driving a car that looked fast. Or a motorcycle.



I was never stupid enough to disrespect them, much less resist arrest.

I guess that my white privilege was that I was taught not to do that stupid stuff.

Here's the neat thing though - black mothers and fathers can teach their children those things too. :)

I'm sure black parents have plenty of tales they share with their children about cops....probably much different than the white-bread versions
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
I'm sure black parents have plenty of tales they share with their children about cops....probably much different than the white-bread versions

i wouldn't give them too much credence - anecdotal and all that, dontcha know
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
The logic of quip:

The less evidence we see of something means it is actually more prevalent than if there were actual evidence of it. :dizzy:
 

Lon

Well-known member
I'm not forcing anything, the disenfranchised of this country seem to be the ones forcing things while your response is to dismiss their actual plight..... only to highlight their violence.
It's a convenient criticism, one where you're enjoying the privilege of comfortably sitting back and cherry-picking your opinion on the issue. Your response is to slam that door in their face and lock it.....and then wonder why there's such animosity and mistrust?

The chip is 1) there prior to conversation 2) evident and present throughout and 3) firmly in place on the departure. As I said, you had it in your sig for years and so the chip has ever been there and your transparent stance upon this is without obscurity and all of it projection, as certainly egocentric as the author of the sig quote. All of it a narrative you penned before you ever met me, nor ever let me be anything but that specific projection. It keeps me believing you've had issues that are stark and deep-seated and your TOL participation is a vent for that egocentricity. Is it true that you are a minority? Yes, apparently. Any of it by your own choice? Yeah, almost all of it. "Victim" isn't usually a self-inflicted role, other than by a fragile soul.

I'm sure black parents have plenty of tales they share with their children about cops....probably much different than the white-bread versions
Neither black nor white, but living in a country with both. Does it 'make' you a victim? :nono: You or your parents wanted to live here. It sounds like you are mad at your parents for it, or something near akin, to me.
 

quip

BANNED
Banned
The chip is 1) there prior to conversation 2) evident and present throughout and 3) firmly in place on the departure. As I said, you had it in your sig for years and so the chip has ever been there and your transparent stance upon this is without obscurity and all of it projection, as certainly egocentric as the author of the sig quote. All of it a narrative you penned before you ever met me, nor ever let me be anything but that specific projection. It keeps me believing you've had issues that are stark and deep-seated and your TOL participation is a vent for that egocentricity. Is it true that you are a minority? Yes, apparently. Any of it by your own choice? Yeah, almost all of it. "Victim" isn't usually a self-inflicted role, other than by a fragile soul.


Neither black nor white, but living in a country with both. Does it 'make' you a victim? :nono: You or your parents wanted to live here. It sounds like you are mad at your parents for it, or something near akin, to me.

Well, since you side-stepped the actual issue and instead attacked the opponent (a classic fallacy) I'm forced to apply this myopic speculation to the larger picture:

The subject being white privilege and per it's advantages, its self-serving arrogance is clear - at least here. As for the advantaged stricken -- per their moral, spiritual and material superiority, they can't dare to be at fault. As such, there must be aspersions cast upon the discontented...."deep-seated" issues of egocentrism and self-inflicted victimhood.

A typical and convenient, look-the-other-way, blame the victim rationalization. You believe in this manner ....well, because you can afford to. Never forced into confronting your lofty perch, you've had no need to. Though, It seems current events are forcing your hand on the issue and your uncomfortable response is to defensively lash out.

Understandable.

No, Lon I'm as white as you and grew up middle-class, small town American. Perhaps though, I do indeed hold a chip because even though I'm white I still recognize the advantages I've had and hold compassion for those that don't....and in that regard, sadly it seems I'm in (thus, can identify with) the minority.

-- As a side-bar, speaking of projection....don't project your self-serving demeanor onto me; don't conflate passion and empathy with that of "self-inflicted" victimhood.----

Once again, I beseech you to examine the advantages you've been blessed with and wish it upon others instead of cursing them for desiring that which was effortlessly bestowed upon you.
 

quip

BANNED
Banned
As I said, you had it in your sig for years and so the chip has ever been there and your transparent stance upon this is without obscurity and all of it projection, as certainly egocentric as the author of the sig quote.

Here's my former sig (highlighted) in context.....which you somehow seem to have issue with:

The Laws of God, The Laws of Man

by A. E. Housman (1859-1936)

The laws of God, the laws of man,
He may keep that will and can;
Not I: let God and man decree
Laws for themselves and not for me;
And if my ways are not as theirs
Let them mind their own affairs.
Their deeds I judge and much condemn,
Yet when did I make laws for them?
Please yourselves, say I, and they
Need only look the other way.
But no, they will not; they must still
Wrest their neighbor to their will,
And make me dance as they desire
With jail and gallows and hell-fire.
And how am I to face the odds
Of man’s bedevilment and God’s?
I, a stranger and afraid
In a world I never made.

They will be master, right or wrong;
Though both are foolish, both are strong.
And since, my soul, we cannot fly
To Saturn nor to Mercury,
Keep we must, if keep we can,
These foreign laws of God and man.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Well, since you side-stepped the actual issue and instead attacked the opponent (a classic fallacy) I'm forced to apply this myopic speculation to the larger picture:
You've done this already though, and it is absolutely 'projection' for it. You simply must see your own astigmatism in these discussion or what you apply will often be egocentric.
The reason this is important is because you are painting me with that broad brush. "White privilege" is a kind of prejudice all its own. I did not grow up like you imagine. I grew up in projects and my friends were all blacks in the same projects. I was beat up, often, by black bullies (mind you, a good many others were my friends, but I'm trying to make a point): I was not as 'white privileged as you imagine and the broad-brush FORCES me into a narrative rather than letting me fit where I actually grew up.

The subject being white privilege and per it's advantages, its self-serving arrogance is clear - at least here. As for the advantaged stricken -- per their moral, spiritual and material superiority, they can't dare to be at fault. As such, there must be aspersions cast upon the discontented...."deep-seated" issues of egocentrism and self-inflicted victimhood.
See what YOU did there? YOU forced ME into a mold YOU have in YOUR mind. It is part of your nonwhite status, and that's okay, just see the color of your own colored glasses. Dialogue is better than 'telling' what bin I am in.

A typical and convenient, look-the-other-way, blame the victim rationalization. You believe in this manner ....well, because you can afford to. Never forced into confronting your lofty perch, you've had no need to. Though, It seems current events are forcing your hand on the issue and your uncomfortable response is to defensively lash out.
I've scars, thus 'convenient' isn't the word. If I'm at all anything, I've paid for the position dearly.

Understandable.
Good! When you are empathizing, it is a start and a place I actually enjoy a bit of meaning in our conversations, however often they come.

No, Lon I'm as white as you and grew up middle-class, small town American. Perhaps though, I do indeed hold a chip because even though I'm white I still recognize the advantages I've had and hold compassion for those that don't....and in that regard, sadly it seems I'm in (thus, can identify with) the minority.
Interestingly, you make statements that eschew, so I hope you connect why I'd put two and two together (incorrectly as it may be).

-- As a side-bar, speaking of projection....don't project your self-serving demeanor onto me; don't conflate passion and empathy with that of "self-inflicted" victimhood.----
My sig never carried "afraid of what I never made." You HAVE to own that. You wrote it. There is no 'and, if's, or but's' concerning it. You made a clear conveyance and it is my initial introduction to all things "Quip."
Once again, I beseech you to examine the advantages you've been blessed with and wish it upon others instead of cursing them for desiring that which was effortlessly bestowed upon you.
I'm convinced at this venture, you know better and otherwise, at least by statement. I REALLY appreciate 'blessed' as part of your narrative. It meets both of our narratives and we can talk about how we became 'blessed.' I no longer live in projects. It was a hard climb but I can readily embrace 'blessed' as part of that narrative. Was I 'blessed' in those projects of poverty? In a sense, though it was really hard and difficult, but I'm in a good place. For me, it took hard work and determination and I've a black friend that has done similar. He simply did the same thing I've done and buckled down. You would be correct to say we both had hurdles and I absolutely agree some of his is in regard to his skin color and mine are due to having other issues that may or may not compare. What I do know, is we both have been 'blessed.' I met him through my business and built him a fence. Later, I've done a lot of work on his house when he needs me so I'm fairly familiar with his narrative.

For me the thread question has to be formed like this: "Was there any 'privilege' you received from being white that isn't compensated for some way, for another color?' Perhaps in a criminal sense, but I nor my friend are criminals so it doesn't apply. He is 'for' the marches. I haven't gotten to ask him if he is for the violence and harm being caused by all of them yet. I'd think he'd be against that part, but there are a good many that support that too. Friends of my brother are flying a flag in support of first responders (not just police, paramedics, firemen, dispatchers, etc). They have been vandalized and have received the worst kinds of hate-mail. I'm wondering if their 'white' privilege actually exists and keeps them from harm and trouble. It doesn't seem to be of any help whatsoever.

I believe there have been some good questions in thread to this point: In WHAT senses am I privileged for my color? I would agree 1) I'm not pulled over often BUT over 50% of the crimes in this country are perpetrated by a very specific color. I'm a bit in agreement with Pavlov and B.F. Skinner that man is a machine (product of his/her environment) because I know what living in those poor circumstances growing up can do to the psyche, but I'm also very aware that the Christianity that you are 'afraid of' lifted me out of being angry and reactionary and taught me a better way. I do believe the faith and philosophy reach way past any barriers and color for certain becomes superficial (not legitimate, just comparing the hurdle faith crosses as not being consequential in comparison). I've seen it. Thus, while I think some white-wash in recent discussions makes us realize another's narrative (a good thing), the mean and angry parts of it are of no significant value. I REALLY appreciate 'love' and 'empathy' I'm hearing from the left over the issues. Those must overshadow 'angry' and 'violent' and 'unreasonable' or this will simply be lost in history until love and care really are a part of the solution (a bit of a different discussion along the lines of the thread I started on BLM). :e4e:
 

Lon

Well-known member
Here's my former sig (highlighted) in context.....which you somehow seem to have issue with:

The Laws of God, The Laws of Man

by A. E. Housman (1859-1936)

The laws of God, the laws of man,
He may keep that will and can;
Not I: let God and man decree
Laws for themselves and not for me;
And if my ways are not as theirs
Let them mind their own affairs.
Their deeds I judge and much condemn,
Yet when did I make laws for them?
Please yourselves, say I, and they
Need only look the other way.
But no, they will not; they must still
Wrest their neighbor to their will,
And make me dance as they desire
With jail and gallows and hell-fire.
And how am I to face the odds
Of man’s bedevilment and God’s?
I, a stranger and afraid
In a world I never made.

They will be master, right or wrong;
Though both are foolish, both are strong.
And since, my soul, we cannot fly
To Saturn nor to Mercury,
Keep we must, if keep we can,
These foreign laws of God and man.

The context is exactly as I've read. This is the second time, at least, you've posted this.
While the author wants some power over his own laws, he is yet 'a stranger and afraid.'
Sociology would have been a good course for him. Think of home-owners associations for a moment: everyone knows they are bound to the rules of the collective, regardless of personal (minority) difference. There is no 'victim' to that narrative. The answer is simply "move!" if one doesn't like it. Houseman, instead, provided 'victim' instead of being happy or moving. His tack was rather to try and change what he didn't like, or at least complain that he personally was disgruntled because he didn't fit. The collective rules do not hurt him one bit. He can get up on a Sunday and mow his lawn because it really does keep property values higher. There is no point in allowing him to let it grow just to appease his laziness in this example. Mow your lawn! It doesn't matter if you inherited this property from your parents. They chose this covenant thus you choose it too, or you move! It is as simple as that! So and what, Houseman!? Move! Quit being a disgruntled, unhappy, drama-queen child!

The answer to him is really as simple as that. He's spoiled, arrogant, and ignorant for his writing and certainly not empathetic or understanding to whatever majority he sees(Living in the U.S. with an association and a covenant is proverbially the same thing). It is RIGHT that the majority have their values exercised in a democracy. Republic would mean the majority 'tries' to meet the others at least halfway. We live in a good nation with a good plan that I believe works the right way. There is always a tension between republic and democracy, a good one when you are a democratic republic.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... the advantages you've been blessed with ...


those advantages include the ability to read the following and agree with it:



Sheriff D. Clarke says it best..

It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colours, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect.









 

quip

BANNED
Banned
I've scars, thus 'convenient' isn't the word. If I'm at all anything, I've paid for the position dearly.

May this be the source of your animosity?


I REALLY appreciate 'love' and 'empathy' I'm hearing from the left over the issues. Those must overshadow 'angry' and 'violent' and 'unreasonable' or this will simply be lost in history until love and care really are a part of the solution (a bit of a different discussion along the lines of the thread I started on BLM). :e4e:

How can love and empathy - alone - awaken the condition of contented indifference and ignorance. Sometimes...with a goal to produce fruit, a tree must be shaken.
 

quip

BANNED
Banned
those advantages include the ability to read the following and agree with it:



Sheriff D. Clarke says it best..

It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colours, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect.










[For the time being doser becomes a momentary and uncharacteristic Boy-Scout]

:salute:

Yes sir! .....and don't drink and drive boys!
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
[For the time being doser becomes a momentary and uncharacteristic Boy-Scout]

:salute:

Yes sir! .....and don't drink and drive boys!

I was for years as a child a boy scout. When my sons were of the appropriate age I was a scout leader. So yes my identification with scouting is strong. I was involved in scouting for nineteen years.
 
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