Another tally of anti-trinitarian threads

marhig

Well-known member
Jesus said that if you have seen Him, you have seen God.
He also called Himself God in Revelation.


Which cult's Bible are you reading?
No Jesus didn't say quote "if you have seen me you have seen God", Jesus said, if you have seen me you have seen the father. Is Jesus the father? No.

Jesus meant, that the father was with him and you could see the love of the father through him. Because Jesus didn't live by his will, but by the will of the father so when we see Jesus, we see the father. Jesus isn't the father, and Jesus isn't God.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
No Jesus didn't say quote "if you have seen me you have seen God", Jesus said, if you have seen me you have seen the father. Is Jesus the father? No.

Jesus meant, that the father was with him and you could see the love of the father through him.
No, Jesus didn't mean "you could see the love of the Father through Him". Jesus meant what He said that He and the Father are one. The Father is God and Jesus is God, otherwise, they would be more than one. As Isaiah said...

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

He also said this...

"‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God."

Jesus called Himself God...

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death."

"And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son."

"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
 

Right Divider

Body part
No it doesn't, and Jesus himself says that the only true God is the father, and that the father sent him, so if Jesus says that the father is the only true God, then that's the truth. And Jesus has a God and his God is the father, so he isn't God.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
  • First, you are reading your BIAS into the text. What the text does NOT say is that only the Father is the true God.
  • Second, Jesus was BOTH God and man. So, AS A MAN, Jesus has a God.
If Jesus was not God, He would have been wrong not to correct Thomas:
Joh 20:27-29 KJV Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Thomas saw his LORD and his GOD in Jesus Christ.
 

marhig

Well-known member
  • First, you are reading your BIAS into the text. What the text does NOT say is that only the Father is the true God.
  • Second, Jesus was BOTH God and man. So, AS A MAN, Jesus has a God.
If Jesus was not God, He would have been wrong not to correct Thomas:

Thomas saw his LORD and his GOD in Jesus Christ.
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't. And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!

And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Correct, "one spirit with Him".
No Jesus said that they may be one, even as we are one, and we aren't God and neither is Jesus.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
 

OZOS

Well-known member
No Jesus said that they may be one, even as we are one, and we aren't God and neither is Jesus.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
One "body", dummy.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him."

"so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another."

"For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread."

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

"But now indeed there are many members, yet one body."

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling"

Already, proved that Jesus is God in post #259

You're not equipped to discuss the Bible skippy, go back to playing your video games.
 

marhig

Well-known member
One "body", dummy.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him."

"so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another."

"For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread."

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

"But now indeed there are many members, yet one body."

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling"

Already, proved that Jesus is God in post #259

You're not equipped to discuss the Bible skippy, go back to playing your video games.
Jesus clearly said to be one as he and the father are one. So if we are one as they are one then that shows us that Jesus being one with the father doesn't mean that Jesus is God. And Jesus clearly says that God is his God and that the father is greater than he, and it says in the Bible that God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ. All these things show us that Jesus isn't God.

And you can call me names etc. But you just look foolish and childish.
 

OZOS

Well-known member
Jesus clearly said to be one as he and the father are one. So if we are one as they are one then that shows us that Jesus being one with the father doesn't mean that Jesus is God.
Again, you lack a basic understanding of spiritual things, not to mention logic and terms. We (the body) are one. They (God) are one. Simple.

Nevertheless, you continue to ignore all the evidence where Jesus claimed to be God in Revelation.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't.
Again, you are FORCING your INCORRECT understanding on the text.
And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he.
This does NOT mean that Jesus is not God.
If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!
Again, you try to FORCE your meaning onto the text.
And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
The Word was GOD and the Word was made flesh. John 1:1 & 14
 

marhig

Well-known member
Again, you lack a basic understanding of spiritual things, not to mention logic and terms. We (the body) are one. They (God) are one. Simple.

Nevertheless, you continue to ignore all the evidence where Jesus claimed to be God in Revelation.
And Jesus was given that revelation from God it didn't come from himself. So it's from God through Christ and revealed to John through an angel.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
 

marhig

Well-known member
Again, you are FORCING your INCORRECT understanding on the text.

This does NOT mean that Jesus is not God.

Again, you try to FORCE your meaning onto the text.

The Word was GOD and the Word was made flesh. John 1:1 & 14

No I'm not forcing my understanding at all, I'm clearly quoting Jesus who says that the father is the ONLY true God and Jesus says that he sent him to do his will! And Jesus says that the father is his God. That's not my understanding, that's clearly written in the bible!
 

OZOS

Well-known member
And Jesus was given that revelation from God it didn't come from himself. So it's from God through Christ and revealed to John through an angel.
:LOL: You're an idiot, and a coward. Jesus called Himself "God" in that letter. He also called Himself the "Alpha and Omega", the "first and the Last", the "beginning and the end". Keep ignoring the truth, you pervert, and you will hear Jesus say "I never knew you". You certainly don't know Him.
 

Right Divider

Body part
No I'm not forcing my understanding at all, I'm clearly quoting Jesus who says that the father is the ONLY true God and Jesus says that he sent him to do his will!
The scripture does NOT say that ONLY the Father is the true God. You believe that despite the lack of evidence or support.
And Jesus says that the father is his God.
AS A MAN. Jesus is GOD and MAN.
Joh 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 KJV And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
God made flesh. So simple.
That's not my understanding, that's clearly written in the bible!
Nope. It's your false and forced interpretation.

What scripture says: The Father is the only true God.
What you THINK that scripture says: Only the Father is the true God.

What you THINK is incorrect.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't.
I'm not sure if you can grasp this, but what you just said is a rationalization. An 'if/then' that isn't demonstrably true. It isn't a horrible assumptions but it IS an assumption. RATHER we need to read all of scripture and not pit one scripture against another. Clearly, John 20:28 says Jesus Christ is the "Lord of me (Thomas)" and "God of me (Thomas)." IF you are going to hold to scriptures, then hold to all of them. That is all a Trinitarian insists: that it is Biblically responsible. Thomas called Jesus, his God.
And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!
Notice 'Father' in your discussion? Nobody is arguing that Jesus isn't subordinate to the Father. Being literally the "Only" begotten son would make that one what? (God, unlike any other being, ever as an "Only") Next? How many 'gods' are there? (One "There will never be another")
What does this demand? It demands an orthodox scripture-honoring position that recognizes these truths of scripture. We call such people "Trinitarian."
And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God.
Not what Thomas said, though, is it? 🤔 "Marhig MUST be incorrect" right?
It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.
Fine with the first line, the other is 'leading' in rationalization that really does do damage to scripture, especially John 20:28. We have to suggest that Marhig has been careless with his rationalization. He 'assumed' something that cannot be true, scripturally.
But that's totally different to Christ is God
So is John 1:1 Was 'with' God AND 'was' God. But scripture literally says that. Shouldn't men try to stop rationalizing what they think and thumping their 'rationale' as if it were true? 🤔
And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
Not in the sense that He is the Father but Thomas does call Christ the 'God of me.' Reread John 1:1: Contextually it isn't easy to grasp a being that is 'with' Himself and 'is' Himself at the same time, but that is exactly what that scripture says. It really doesn't matter if Unitarians try to say the "Word" wasn't Jesus or was 'an idea' though both are truly stretches in rationalizations that don't fit the text: what they actually fail to grasp is that whatever such is, it is BOTH with AND the identity of God at the same time. There is no way to get around that, scripture says it explicitly. No Unitarians/Arian rationalization is capable when you grasp that grammatically structured truth: It forces a Trinitarian position. Scripture does.
 

marke

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't. And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!

And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
God has commanded every creature in heaven and earth to fall down and worship Jesus. That does not contradict God's command that we worship nobody but God.
 

marke

Well-known member
Your evidence is flawed, just like Trump's.
Democrats who still believe Adam Schiff has concrete evidence that Trump conspired with Russia to steal the DNC emails which sank Hillary's hope of being elected, also still stupidly think Trump's make America great plan is evil and should be replaced with the new democrat socialist 'make America a bankrupted black racist communist 3rd world has been nation' plan.
 

marke

Well-known member
Jesus himself says that the father is the only true God, that means that he himself isn't. And Jesus also said the father is his God and that he is greater than he. If the father is the only true God according to Jesus, and he is the God of Jesus and greater than him then Jesus can't be God!

And yes God is in Christ but Christ isn't God. It says in the Bible that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. But that's totally different to Christ is God. And Paul says that the head of Christ is God. So Christ Jesus isn't God.
Jesus created the universe and all things therein. He is God, no matter what sort of distinctions exist between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 

Lon

Well-known member
the Bible says that the Lord God Almighty is the beginning and the end.

Jesus is the Lord God Almighty, the Alpha the Omega, the First and the Last, and besides Him, there is no God.
Has so much power when the OT and NT quotes are laid side by side like that. Thanks -Lon
 
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