Right Divider
Body part
You wish.
Paul says that Jesus is the LORD GOD
- Thread starter Right Divider
- Start date
Greetings Isolator,
The following is the LXX rendition:
Exodus 3:12-14 (Brenton's LXX): 12 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I will be with thee, and this shall be the sign to thee that I shall send thee forth, - when thou bringest out my people out of Egypt, then ye shall serve God in this mountain. 13 nd Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? 14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
The LXX renders the Hebrew Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh as I am THE BEING, and Ehyeh as THE BEING and as such is considered a very poor translation of the Hebrew. They have rendered the two occurrences of Ehyeh differently and dropped the third word Asher altogether. There is NO English translation from the Hebrew that gives a similar translation. Notice also that the LXX rendition of Ehyeh in Exodus 3:12 is given as "I will be", the future tense and also note that most modern English translations such as ESV, NASB, NIV also render Exodus 3:12 as "I will be". This sets the context for Exodus 3:14 that The YHWH Name does not speak only of His existence, but mainly is speaking of activity, of what God would accomplish in delivering Israel out of the bondage of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land.
Tyndale and the RV and RSV margins also give the future tense for Exodus 3:14.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.
Kind regards
Trevor
Jesus in John 8:58 is not quoting or alluding to the LXX, and it is not "Straight out of the Septuagint". There is no evidence that the normal Jewish audience spoke or understood Greek or be familiar with the LXX.
The following is the LXX rendition:
Exodus 3:12-14 (Brenton's LXX): 12 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I will be with thee, and this shall be the sign to thee that I shall send thee forth, - when thou bringest out my people out of Egypt, then ye shall serve God in this mountain. 13 nd Moses said to God, Behold, I shall go forth to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of our fathers has sent me to you; and they will ask me, What is his name? What shall I say to them? 14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
The LXX renders the Hebrew Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh as I am THE BEING, and Ehyeh as THE BEING and as such is considered a very poor translation of the Hebrew. They have rendered the two occurrences of Ehyeh differently and dropped the third word Asher altogether. There is NO English translation from the Hebrew that gives a similar translation. Notice also that the LXX rendition of Ehyeh in Exodus 3:12 is given as "I will be", the future tense and also note that most modern English translations such as ESV, NASB, NIV also render Exodus 3:12 as "I will be". This sets the context for Exodus 3:14 that The YHWH Name does not speak only of His existence, but mainly is speaking of activity, of what God would accomplish in delivering Israel out of the bondage of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land.
Tyndale and the RV and RSV margins also give the future tense for Exodus 3:14.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
Greetings again Right Divider,
Kind regards
Trevor
I was responding to what @Lon asked and what @Idolater stated and my impression is that both of these were endorsing what you stated in the OP. As far as the Opening Post is concerned I believe that Jesus represents Yahweh. As far as your thread title is concerned you use "LORD GOD", and I understand what you are trying to say, but the convention in the KJV is to use LORD God and Lord GOD for the respective Hebrew words. Perhaps you have not understood the various Hebrew words.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
Body part
As well they should, as it's a simple and plain reading of scripture.
As well He should.... being Yahweh Himself.
The verses that Paul uses are clear.
Greetings again Right Divider,
And note the actual occurrence of the LXX "I am" is opposite to what he claimed:
I was reading a commentary this morning on the Gospel of John and I am up to John 4 and the Samaritan woman. It is interesting how she understood the occurrence of "I am":
John 4:25–30 (KJV): 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. 27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her? 28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? 30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.
Kind regards
Trevor
I am not sure if @Idolater is as keen now in promoting the LXX rendition of Exodus 3:14 as he was in his original post after I pointed out that the LXX renders Ehyeh in Exodus 3:12 in the future tense "I will be" and the first occurrence of Ehyeh in Exodus 3:14 as "I am" and the second and third occurrences of Ehyeh in Exodus 3:14 as "THE BEING" and that they drop the Hebrew word Asher altogether.
And note the actual occurrence of the LXX "I am" is opposite to what he claimed:
The LXX has "I am THE BEING". Perhaps @Idolater is also not keen because of your response to my post with the laughter icon (sneer?)
You seem to be avoiding what I stated about LORD GOD. The three Hebrew words are Yahweh, Adonai and Elohim.
I was reading a commentary this morning on the Gospel of John and I am up to John 4 and the Samaritan woman. It is interesting how she understood the occurrence of "I am":
John 4:25–30 (KJV): 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. 27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her? 28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? 30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.
Kind regards
Trevor
Last edited:
Idolater
Popetard
I love "Isolator" that's elite.
Was thinking more like Isaiah 43:10 and Isaiah 51:12, plus we do all know that Yahweh is a relative to the Hebrew I AM.
Greetings again Idolater
,
I mentioned that the margin of the Revised Version has "I will be" for Exodus 3:14, and one of the supporters of this rendition could have been AB Davidson as he was one of the Hebrew scholars engaged in the production of the RV. Please note that I do not endorse all of his theology, as he was most probably a Trinitarian and also had other wrong ideas, but his Hebrew abilities have been respected and some of his Hebrew books were published in new editions until recently.
The article by AB Davidson is in the Hastings Bible Dictionary Volume 2 page 199:
"The name is connected with the Hebrew ‘hayah’, ‘to be’, in the imperfect. Now with regard to this verb, first, it does not mean ‘to be’ essentially or ontologically, but phenomenally; and secondly the imperfect has not the sense of a present (‘am’) but of a future (‘will be’). In Exodus 3:10ff, when Moses demurred to go to Egypt, God assured him saying, ‘I will be with thee’. When he asked how he should name the God of their fathers to the people, he was told Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. Again he was bidden say, ‘Ehyeh hath sent me unto you’. From all this it seems evident that in the view of the writer Ehyeh and Yahweh are the same: that God is Ehyeh, ‘I will be’, when speaking of Himself and ‘Yahweh’, ‘he will be’, when spoken of by others. What He will be is left unexpressed - He will be with them, helper, strengthener, deliverer."
Now this last comment by AB Davidson ties in with what I suggested that what God would do or be was that Yahweh would be their salvation, He would deliver Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land. Also refer to Exodus 6:1-8 where the future tense is strongly connected with the Yahweh Name.
Kind regards
Trevor.
I apologise. I really got it wrong.
Yes, they are all members of the Verb To Be family and depending on the tense and context the real meaning needs to be considered.
,
I mentioned that the margin of the Revised Version has "I will be" for Exodus 3:14, and one of the supporters of this rendition could have been AB Davidson as he was one of the Hebrew scholars engaged in the production of the RV. Please note that I do not endorse all of his theology, as he was most probably a Trinitarian and also had other wrong ideas, but his Hebrew abilities have been respected and some of his Hebrew books were published in new editions until recently.
The article by AB Davidson is in the Hastings Bible Dictionary Volume 2 page 199:
"The name is connected with the Hebrew ‘hayah’, ‘to be’, in the imperfect. Now with regard to this verb, first, it does not mean ‘to be’ essentially or ontologically, but phenomenally; and secondly the imperfect has not the sense of a present (‘am’) but of a future (‘will be’). In Exodus 3:10ff, when Moses demurred to go to Egypt, God assured him saying, ‘I will be with thee’. When he asked how he should name the God of their fathers to the people, he was told Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. Again he was bidden say, ‘Ehyeh hath sent me unto you’. From all this it seems evident that in the view of the writer Ehyeh and Yahweh are the same: that God is Ehyeh, ‘I will be’, when speaking of Himself and ‘Yahweh’, ‘he will be’, when spoken of by others. What He will be is left unexpressed - He will be with them, helper, strengthener, deliverer."
Now this last comment by AB Davidson ties in with what I suggested that what God would do or be was that Yahweh would be their salvation, He would deliver Israel out of Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land. Also refer to Exodus 6:1-8 where the future tense is strongly connected with the Yahweh Name.
Kind regards
Trevor.