commonsense
Active member
So what you're saying is that if the murderer of Renee Good had faced consequences there's a good chance that the murderers of Alex Pretti would not have been emboldened to commit murder?
The Death Penalty should be applied equally to all ages
- Thread starter JudgeRightly
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Red herrings will get you nowhere.
That was a terrible joke. I don't recommend becoming a comedian.
Now answer my question:
... I could continue this analogy, but maybe you can see where I'm going with this.
So again, I ask, if we allow one person to get away with a crime, what does it teach him and other (would-be) criminals?
What does it do to the foundations of civilized society?
When consequences for actions are removed, how does it affect those around criminals?
In gang-infested areas where enforcement of the law is more of a suggestion than a requirement, is it more or less common for there to be corruption of the people not in gangs? Do the regular folk tend to obey the gangs more than the law of the land?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
I'm not sure they're pretending.
Most of them are pretty darned retarded
And to further illustrate my point:
| YOU’RE NOT GONNA BELIEVE THIS ONE OUT OF ALAMEDA… OF COURSE THE JUDGE DID THIS California strikes again. An Alameda County judge just ruled that Cedric Irving Jr. the man who admitted to the targeted shooting murder of legendary East Bay football coach John Beam (featured in the Netflix documentary Last Chance U) inside his office at Laney College last November is mentally incompetent to stand trial. After four psych evals, the judge says he needs mental health treatment instead of facing a jury for murder. Coach Beam is gone. The killer confessed. And California’s justice system just hits pause. |
VladtheDestroyer
Active member
What happens is gangsters will get kids to murder and traffic drugs for them instead. It's easy for them to target kids these days. Why do you think so many juveniles in Chicago are walking around with machine guns now? It's WAY harder to buy a gun on the streets now than it was 30 years ago. But they are everywhere now. The reason for this is that the gangsters who are selling guns on black market now are only supplying them now to the people they know are going to be killing the people they want to have killed. Street gang members (kids) who are protecting a "territory" where the is a stash house that's involved with a certain cartel. Things like that.
Many years ago, one of my family members was caught in one of the largest methamphetamine busts in the entire US. The street value of the drugs he got caught with is back then, is almost nothing when compared to what many juveniles get caught dealing and trafficking today. Because it not hard these days, to take a kid and convince him that his entire life is worthless and that the only chance he has is to work for a mafia or drug cartel. It's easy to do that. And it's easy to find parents who will let their kids get involved with things like that because they get money and they know their child isn't going to be punished for it. Maybe a few years in juvenile detention and that's it. But by then, their lives are destroyed. And they die the on the streets while the gangsters that recruited them, die of old age. The only people I grew up with that made it out of this lifestyle became born again Christians. Jesus was the only person that could save them. The rest are dead or serving life in prison. That is reality.
So I was lucky that when I was young, someone who hardly even knew me, took the time to tell me something about God's Word. Even though I was just young punk who was just speaking foolishness at the time. I will never forget that. It is an amazing thing that I did not deserve.
@JudgeRightly comments are spot on. He knows exactly what he is talking about. You don't have to grow up with criminal gangs to know how the world works. The world works the way God says it will in the Bible. It is ridiculous for you to try to deny this.
Not to diminish your point at all, but this is something I wasn't even considering!
My main point is that it, to answer the question I've been harrying Arthur with for the last several pages of this thread, teaches men that they can get away with things normally deemed wrong/immoral/illegal, leading to the collapse of society as a whole.
This process does not happen immediately, but can take decades.
We already see evidence of it in multiple countries, particularly Britain, where rape gangs run rampant and murders by knife are a common occurrence (and that's not even getting into WHO is committing these crimes).
But yes, when letal consequences are not enforced equally for everyone, it incentivizes the ones who would normally commit the crimes to use the ones who are perceptively exempt from the consequences to commit heinous acts, because then the masterminds behind the crime can more effectively get away with their evildoing, and even if the one they used gets caught, they're not likely to be punished, and this furthers the disease of corruption.
VladtheDestroyer
Active member
My point is secondary to the point you have been making! I see that the Bible has given you an excellent understanding of the matter. Thank you for having the guts to talk about it!
commonsense
Active member
Thank you for your thoughtful post. You have many worthwhile points.
Now, why do you suppose that it's easy for gangsters to target kids, these days or any days? Sure there's societal factors, broken families, being the victim of bullying, looking for a "family", security, comradeship. But the main, overriding reason is they're kids. Why don't kids have the right to vote, the right to drink or have sexual relations? Because they're kids. The pre-frontal cortex of their brains (responsible for decision making and rational thinking) won't be fully developed until their early 20s. And yet JR thinks they are really adults in a 40 lb body, and should be punished as adults for "crimes." How do others on here feel about this? It seems JR has gone far beyond what even the most rabid Christian Nationalist on here would support. Perhaps there is an ISIS Caliphate somewhere that would hold to similar views.
Bingo!
Because, and this is the issue you people keep dancing around because you don't want to admit where it leads, crime multiplies when the law is treated as selective or negotiable.
Criminals thrive where punishment is weak, selective, or negotiable.
Most of those are not root causes so much as overlapping symptoms of social decay, especially family breakdown. But whether the vulnerability comes from broken homes, insecurity, or peer pressure, the point remains the same: criminals exploit the vulnerable most aggressively where the risks to themselves are lowest.
And those lower risks are inherent in a system that does not apply the law and its punishments equally to all members of society.
Yes, in the sense that they are more impressionable, more vulnerable, and easier to manipulate. But that only reinforces my point, because when the law is not applied equally, those same children become useful instruments for criminals who want to lower their own risk.
That is a category error, and a pretty obvious one at that. Restrictions on lawful privileges like voting, drinking, and sexual consent are not the same thing as punishment for unlawful acts, so the comparison fails. You are still avoiding the actual issue of what selective impunity teaches society.
That's a straw man. I do not think children are “adults in a 40 lb body.” My point is that unequal application of the law teaches the wrong lessons, weakens deterrence, and creates incentives for criminals to exploit the young, the weak, and the vulnerable.
This is just an appeal to popularity for the benefit of the peanut gallery, not an actual argument. Truth is not determined by how many people in this forum are willing to affirm it, especially when most of them still refuse to answer the basic question I've been asking.
Pure smear-by-association. Comparing my position to ISIS does not answer the question. Dragging in ISIS is what people do when they cannot answer a Christian's arguments. Either defend your own position, or refute mine. Or just keep proving my point that you cannot.
VladtheDestroyer
Active member
Because we try to be "nicer than God." Instead of obeying Him we are soft on crime.
We cannot quantify all of the various risk factors involved that lead people to crime. Or even the effects a single crime has on society as whole. But God can! This why we should obey Him. Do you think that there is anyone who serving life in prison right now who honestly thinks "Oh, if only my parents would have let me get away with stealing! Then maybe I wouldn't be in prison for murder right now!" Of course not, that would be ridiculous! JudgeRightly knows exactly what he is talking about here. I have seen it with my own eyes.