Is The Physical Realm Analogous To A Simulated Reality?

Derf

Well-known member
That's a good point. But if we were only physical beings, then wouldn't that mean we would only be judged by our physical abilities?
Maybe "physical" and "spiritual" are not the only things to consider. "Emotional" comes to mind. I guess I'm not too sure what one means when applying the term "spiritual" to humans. If God is spirit, then what is He that we are also? Are we being as His image a 3d representation of a 4d (or more) being, and thus we comprise so 3/4th's of what God is? Or are we flesh, and not spirit, since "spirit" is used for the thing we are not, sometimes?
 

VladtheDestroyer

Well-known member
It's interesting to think about how angels experience the physical realm but I think it's more interesting to think about what angels know about what we're thinking and experiencing in our own minds. I mean if they have superhuman observational powers re the physical realm (which is what you're pointing to), then what does that entail about their ability to almost directly intuit what we're silently thinking about or planning to do? They see things only lie detector polygraph machines or EKG machines or NMR machines can see, along with what we all can see.

It could be that the technology exists one day that will allow us similar observation powers. I have recently read that we can actually look at someones brain and tell if he is a musician. I think that is fascinating.

In 2019 what was called a landmark study involving fMRI image reconstruction was published in PLoS Computational Biology. https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1006633 Deep Image Reconstruction from Human Brain Activity

We have actually had the ability to reconstruct images like this since I think 2010 or so. It was alway hyped as "mind reading" but back then it only worked when the image one looked at also exist in machine that was decoding the image. But the technology in 2019 gave us the ability to just have someone imagine a particular rudimentary shape, and in certain instances the machine was able to decode these images quite well I think, based on high resolution fMRI scans. Some say they can do it today in real time, when before it might have took an hour or so.

From the paper:
brainimage.png

Red square. Green + sign. Blue X

Not perfect, but not that bad either.
 
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VladtheDestroyer

Well-known member
Maybe "physical" and "spiritual" are not the only things to consider. "Emotional" comes to mind. I guess I'm not too sure what one means when applying the term "spiritual" to humans. If God is spirit, then what is He that we are also? Are we being as His image a 3d representation of a 4d (or more) being, and thus we comprise so 3/4th's of what God is? Or are we flesh, and not spirit, since "spirit" is used for the thing we are not, sometimes?

Well it seems emotional should fall under the spiritual category. I think most of us would agree that the spiritual parts of us are just the parts that are not made of matter?? But what exactly do we mean by "not made of matter"? Does it mean not made of atoms or something smaller, like neutrons or electrons? What about light? I don't think it is an easy question.
 

VladtheDestroyer

Well-known member
The argument I made in my original post addresses this sort of "greater reality" idea. There can be no such thing, and the degree to which you allow such a thing to exist in your mind is the degree to which you cannot tell whether ANYTHING is true.

Anyway, of course there is a greater reality beyond what we are able to perceive. You are pretending that this means multiple realities exist but that not a normal use of language. Even to simply posit the physical realm is a simulation still only implies there is 1 reality. When we invent things like virtual-reality video games or flight simulators, nobody says "Well multi-realities exist now because we have flight simulators"

You are just importing your own goofyness into this thread and trying to poison the well with it, while pretending you've solved some sort of problem.


It literally undermines your ability to know anything whatsoever because by its very definition you have no way of telling what the "greater reality" is or isn't - including that which you think belongs to this reality! Unreal reality is just as big a contradiction as super-real reality. Put another way, there is simply NO such thing as an irrational truth. It's just meaningless nonsense.

Why do you insist on building up this same strawman again? You are not making a Christian argument. You are making a materialist one. Are you a creationist? Because God created us so that we would interact with the physical realm by means of a virtual reality complied in our minds via the interpretation of an electrochemical data stream.

You really need to think about that more. It's obvious you won't though. You are only interested in wordplay and obfuscation.
Now, if by "greater reality" you mean "heaven" then..

I mean a reality beyond what we perceive. Is that really so hard for you to understand??
 
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Idolater

Popetard
Temp Banned
It could be that the technology exists one day that will allow us similar observation powers. I have recently read that we can actually look at someones brain and tell if he is a musician. I think that is fascinating.

It doesn't rise to the level of fascination for me, but it is interesting, and I'd be curious to see how far they can push that envelope. I'd be watching with interest. I'd be munching on popcorn.

Relatedly I saw a clip of someone claiming to be able to do with I think it was ultrasonics, and a vat of water, that you would stand submerged in up to your neck, and they had an AI model create something like what an MRI would do, but it's all just ultrasonics in water, really cheap. That is something I keep waiting to see more about, because idk if it has legs or not, but it sounded really neat.

In 2019 what was called a landmark study involving fMRI image reconstruction was published in PLoS Computational Biology. https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1006633 Deep Image Reconstruction from Human Brain Activity

We have actually had the ability to reconstruct images like this since I think 2010 or so. It was [always] hyped as "mind reading" but back then it only worked when the image one looked at also exist in machine that was decoding the image. But the technology in 2019 gave us the ability to just have someone imagine a particular rudimentary shape, and in certain instances the machine was able to decode these images quite well I think, based on high resolution fMRI scans. Some say they can do it today in real time, when before it might have took an hour or so.

From the paper:
View attachment 16075


Red square. Green + sign. Blue X

Not perfect, but not that bad either.

It is pretty bad. If you had shown me these pictures and said a worm had done this: "We hooked up a worm with some sort of worm crayon that a worm could use, and hooked up the worm with a crayon to a brain scan machine, and when someone thought of a blue 'X', the worm drew that picture with its worm crayon," I'd say, "Not bad for a worm." That would be somewhat impressive.

But if there was anything to that experiment, from what I can gather (not being a technical person like our @Right Divider here, who's got me on ignore (along with @Clete also who's got me on ignore, just btw), not being a technical person, it seems to me that generative AI could probably get much closer than the worm with a crayon did.

But how nuanced could it get? Maybe it can really do well replicating a blue 'X', but maybe it couldn't ever get much more granular than that. But maybe angels could. Not like they're reading your mind, but like, the complex thought or plan is ambiguous to them in their angelic brain scan, but then they see you go to the flower shop, and stop at the candy store, to bring your sweetheart something nice, and now they can infer your thoughts unambiguously, maybe they tie together the angelic brain scan, with just surveillance footage, and know with a fair amount of certainty what you're thinking.

And just for the record, this is all being done in the context that God alone can actually just read our thoughts. Angels (nor demons) aren't being attributed with the ability to read thoughts, but that they could read brain scans and watch what we do, and be able to infer usually what we're thinking. This is all assuming you don't live your every moment as if, even if you're alone, you're never really alone. If you at any time think you're all alone and nobody's watching you, then probably the angels (and demons) know you pretty well.
 

VladtheDestroyer

Well-known member
It is pretty bad. If you had shown me these pictures and said a worm had done this: "We hooked up a worm with some sort of worm crayon that a worm could use, and hooked up the worm with a crayon to a brain scan machine, and when someone thought of a blue 'X', the worm drew that picture with its worm crayon," I'd say, "Not bad for a worm."

😂

Well they have to start somewhere, I suppose. I'm not sure how much further they will get with this, just from MRIs. I imagine there is a limit as to just how small of a space there are able to detect an increase of blood flow in. Maybe they will figure out a better way.
 
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