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But just try riding "on top" of the train instead of "inside" of it and your experience is quite different. When you're on top of a moving train you know you are moving and the earth around you is not moving. We are on top of a moving earth not inside of a moving earth. --Dave

The first rule of rational though is distinction. A thing is what it is and not something else. The law of identity. It's irrational to say the atmosphere is part of the earth. It's distinct from the earth and not anymore part of it than atmospheres are part of sun, moon, or other planets, and...

The earth does not move. --Dave

The earth is not the atmosphere. Solids things move through gases and liquids. --Dave

I meant 1,000 mph not 10,000, my mistake. I just typed in one too many zeros. That everything on earth can cut right through the atmosphere but the spinning earth does not is a clear and obvious contradiction. "I'm not even sure how to answer this stupidity..." You can't answer this because...

Three traditional laws: identity, non-contradiction, excluded middle Law of identity: Atheism is naturalism. Atheism is irrational because particles are both mindless and mind. A thing cannot be both what it is and something else or it's antithesis. --Dave

If any argument presents a clear and obvious contradiction that argument is irrational. In the heliocentric model the earth is spinning at the surface about 1,000 mph at the equator and about 700 mph across America. Jets move above us at about 500 to 700 mph. We move freely in any direction on...

Since I did not originate "flat earth" or "We never went to the moon", arguing on behalf, e.i. repeating the arguments, of those who did was the whole point of this thread. Funny how you and so many others have missed the main point. --Dave

Since “flat earth” is not my original idea, repeating what they were saying was the point of this tread. Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Washington Square Park I haven't gone fishing, I've been studying and preparing to do more evangelism. This week end I was arguing with a very bright young man who is starting his career in neuroscience. I was making the case for the existence of the soul since he was studying how chemical...

Lucky for you you're not stubborn. --Dave

It does not matter where the box is located. It still is the immovable point from which and on which the ants are moving and everything I've already said applies. --Dave

My disagreement with much of science does not mean I'm ignorant of science. There is something anti-logical and anti-Biblical about relativism in physics and not only to me, and, although I wouldn't say this spooks me, but it is the reason for my skepticism. There's no such thing as "physical...

But the box ain't moving, so there's our immovable fixed earth idea again. You can't get an ant speed without that an immovable box. Nice try though. --Dave

But there can be only one reality. Right? I don't know how we can be going both 60 mph and 120 mph at the same time in the same reality. Saying in one relationship we are actually going 60 but in another relationship we are also actually going 120 mph at the same time just does not make sense...

I wouldn't say ignorant either, but just how much one knows is not always obvious to someone else. Some of us don't like to reveal all of our cards. But despite how much one knows here and now there is still an eternity of things to learn. If you've been reading the latest posts you know I'm...

Yes we pick two points and pretend that they don't move in contradiction to "everything is moving." Eventually i hope you'll see that if "everything is moving" then "points" move to. Lets start with the speed of sound. I've seen and posted jets flying at the speed of sound". Here's one...

We are saying that two cars "that are both going 60 mph in opposite directions and begin at the same point" are 120 miles apart in one hour. This means they are moving not in relation to each other but in relation to the same specifications and in relation to the same reality. That reality being...

That's because the earth is not moving and the cars are. So how do we determine how fast radar and sonar travels? --Dave

We were talking about how we determine speed on the surface of the earth but if you want to go to sonar and radar make a point. --Dave