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Well, Elijah and Enoch are probably in heaven.

As opposed to some one who just calls people liars when they can't refute their arguments?

I know! I feel the same way about him. :D

Yes. It includes all time prior to the present. I agree it doesn't include a future church of Smyrna. And I'm sure Musty appreciates that you think him so dumb as not to know that. I guess you can add "never" and "was" to your list of vocabulary words.

I gave you a chance to alter the claim, but you're still insisting that "Never" means "not at any time", rather than "not at a particular time". I'm only saying that Revelation was talking about a real church in a real city, and there's no indication it is anything other than a mostly gentile...

“So let it be written. So let it be done.”

This only tells us they lived at that time. Doesn’t mean they weren’t living before and after that, but we don’t want to extrapolate beyond the info scripture gives us.

Thanks for posting those, Musty, I didn’t know when it was started. I presume this helps us understand when Revelation was written, since it couldn’t have been before Smyrna’s church was founded. Thanks also for refuting your other post:

He’s alive? Then how will he participate in the resurrection?

I would suggest you go look at the meaning of “compare”, as that is exactly what you did. As to the rest of your post, I’ll let others look at it to see if you provided any useful info, or even defended yourself in the face of reasonable arguments. And I must say I’m extremely disappointed...

you were comparing Paul to Steven. Steven went through a fairly comprehensive history when accused by Saul and others. Paul/Saul did none of that when he stood before the Sanhedrin. very little that pertains to our discussion, since we were talking about biblical history. Are you trying to...

You’re more than welcome. You mean as he was about to be convicted of and punished for spreading the truth? I don’t see anything of Jewish history in Acts 22.🤨 Oh, I guess I can only do that if I change my username. Maybe this is where you need to explain some of your MAD Plot doctrine.

You’re welcome! Yes, just as Jesus often did—making a different point than they were expecting. But he was also introducing Jewish history to the Gentiles. Thereby they were able to learn some of the symbolism to help understand Revelation. Rightly dividing, remember?

A church? Polycarp, a disciple of John, and a bishop of the church in Smyrna, would be surprised to hear that.

The warning against the synagogue of Satan is exactly what you’re saying isn’t there, and exactly what Jesus would warn His churches about—the Jews that are trying to get the believers to follow Jewish laws. And Paul regularly referred to Old Testament stories when writing to the Gentile...

Agreed. Don’t agree here. Rev 2 and 3 are specifically addressed to the churches in Gentile cities. If you say they are only for end times, that may be fine, but it is still in the period where Jesus Christ recognizes the jurisdiction of the churches, which would have to be prior to a rapture...

But a church could be cut out. Revelation 2:5 (KJV) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

I think he makes a mistake when he says the thing that is given to the branches is the promises of Israel. Why does he say that? It isn’t in Matt 21. I would offer that what is being given is the words of eternal life. Israel had that, but then that was given to the church, which is obviously...

Why pick this one, Jerry? Why can’t we also say God was not to be taken literally in Eze 24:14? Who gets to choise when to take God literally? is it you?

i found this conversation at a zenforo forum: https://xenforo.com/community/threads/custom-posts-per-page-user-setting.19973/#post-255884