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IF any one chose to sin before they had put their faith in the only Saviour from sin, then they are doomed to hell. The first thing that happens is that their minds are immediately enslaved to evil, they cannot save themselves. Since they have a free will then their choice to sin and face hell...

I think they rebelled against HIS claims to be divine and the only saviour in HIS gospel of salvation as mentioned in HIS proclamation Col 1:23 only to be proven wrong when, as per Rom 1:20, the creation proved HIS claims to divinity and power.

It especially includes HIS giving us a free will because without it we cannot fulfill the purpose for our creation, that is, to become his Bride in the heavenly marriage. :)

Ummm, then how does Jn 3:18 apply that believers (elect in my meme) are never condemend while those who never have believed are condemned already? I think the rebellious angels and lost humanity are the same people but the lost sheep are not in that group, though lost... The lost sheep are the...

QUOTE="way 2 go, post: 1930208, member: 2749"] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till unrighteousness was found in thee. Indeed...my position exactly except it was before Rom 1:20

I find no compelling reason to ascribe inherited sin to any of GOD's attributes... Did HE do this to us for love, for justice, for ...? and just repeating this dogma does not tell us why it does not contradict Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son (US) shall not bear the...

1. How could anyone rebel against the person who had just PROVEN HIS deity and HIS eternal power, Rom 1:20 For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, [that is: PROVEN] being understood by the things made, for them to be...

I agree but I believe this first happened in heaven before the creation of the physical universe and then was recreated (re-enacted?) on earth in the garden as a type to point back to the first, spiritual, fall in heaven.

So nakedness was not sinful before they ate but it was sinful after they ate ... I think you mean naked bodies before eating and naked in sin after eating, a very orthodox way of thinking but it does not deny that the interpretation of naked as referring to being sinful at both times before and...

I think he rebelled before you think he rebelled, not before he did rebel... The proof I am talking about is the proof that YHWH was NOT lying when HE proclaimed HIS deity, Cor 1:23, and by creating the physical universe before everyone's eyes, Job 38:7 HE proved HIS claims of Col 1:23 which...

That YHWH must be an evil or false god? To my mind they must think that HE is lying to them in HIS proclamation and if lying then evil and if evil then a false god. But according to the pov of their fall being AFTER the proof by HIS creation of the physical universe, at this point they know...

By the way...post number 11 is not showing up in my feed here. It is missing. Calling post 11 - post 11 where are you?? :)

I think that the help he needed was to realize that GOD could be trusted to fulfill the promise HE made when HE elected them to be saved from all sin to be able to be HIS Bride. They both had to learn that evil could not be left around in any way by anyone, damned or elect, because a little...

Someone wrote `rm and others decided which `rm we were to use in these verses. I think they got it wrong and so spoke it wrong like so much of what they believed and taught. Also, there is nothing in my study of the Hebrew language that I have found to say this is an impossible interpretation...

Very good is used to describe the physical creation of the universe, the earth and mankind, right? All of Gen 1? The creation that was the proof of HIS Deity and eternal power as per Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have...

I do not accept that GOD creates evil people by forcing them to be created in Adam's line... IF original sin means that we inherit a sinful nature from Adam and NOT that we are guilty of our own free will decision to sin, then I cannot accept it until some questions are answered to my...

Not me, not at all... but there were sinful angels by the time of Gen 1:31 when everything was declared to be good (except Adam being alone, of course, that was still not good) so WHAT DID HE MEAN? Was Satan's fall and incarceration part of what HE made or what...? Remember the serpent was...

Does this imply you think nakedness was sinful? That is my point... They were naked before they ate but only had their eyes opened to, ie, realized that nakedness after they ate! They were not judged for eating, they were judged for being naked! It is clear that they eating only gave them the...

Why do you stop there when the rest of the thought is continued and needs to be explained: And no suitable helper was found? No one deals with this phrase and what it means. Why did GOD bring the ansimals to Adam to find a suitable helper???

I posted this in another thread and it was suggested it would be a good stand-alone topic so here goes! I post from the pov that we were created as SPIRITS before the earth was created which sheds quite a new light on Christian theology. I do not offer this as proof of my Pre-Conception...