17 Year Old Shot And Killed By Cop

[Granite]

That is true.


In regards to the OP, all he had to do was show him his license and registration. That's it. It would have all been defused and nothing would have happened.

I understand what you're saying.

"Papers, please."

"Just do what you told, and we won't shoot you."

"Obey, if you know what's good for you."

"Comply, comply, comply. Or we'll hurt you and get away with it."

Trust me. I get it. Oh boy. Do I.

And you know, these little excuses? These weasely, squirming, pathetic, cowardly excuses? I'm sick of them. I like you, Quetzal, and you generally have your head on straight, but I'm finished having any kind of patience with "pretty please just do as they say." That's the wide-eyed, anxious, trying-to-smile fear of someone who's conditioned to be afraid. And I'm sick to death of that attitude. It's defeatist and appalling.

 

[Rusha]

I understand what you're saying.

"Papers, please."

Granite, can you think of a valid reason why someone who is pulled over should not comply?

 

[patrick jane]

I understand what you're saying.

"Papers, please."

"Just do what you told, and we won't shoot you."

"Obey, if you know what's good for you."

"Comply, comply, comply. Or we'll hurt you and get away with it."

Trust me. I get it. Oh boy. Do I.

And you know, these little excuses? These weasely, squirming, pathetic, cowardly excuses? I'm sick of them. I like you, Quetzal, and you generally have your head on straight, but I'm finished having any kind of patience with "pretty please just do as they say." That's the wide-eyed, anxious, trying-to-smile fear of someone who's conditioned to be afraid. And I'm sick to death of that attitude. It's defeatist and appalling.

By all means question and buck authority ?

 

[Granite]

Granite, can you think of a valid reason why someone who is pulled over should not comply?

If the cop's a jerk and or you haven't broken the law.

The idea that anyone would even consider defying a cop's authority is so ingrained, however, and considered so deeply un-American, that most people react with that befuddled kind of squint and go: "Yeah but why would you do that?"

We're remarkably well trained. Sit, Boo-Boo, sit.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If the cop's a jerk and or you haven't broken the law.

The idea that anyone would even consider defying a cop's authority is so ingrained, however, and considered so deeply un-American, that most people react with that befuddled kind of squint and go: "Yeah but why would you do that?"

We're remarkably well trained. Who's a good boy?

Whose a boy alive another day? You must comply with license and registration when pulled over as the driver whether you like it or not, courts have upheld that many times.

From the ACLU (i figured you would like that source)

You must show your driver’s license and registration when stopped in a car. Otherwise, you don’t have to answer any questions if you are detained or arrested, with one important exception. The police may ask for your name if you have been properly detained, and you can be arrested in some states for refusing to give it. If you reasonably fear that your name is incriminating, you can claim the right to remain silent, which may be a defense in case you are arrested anyway.

Keep giving stupid advice to people though granite.

 

[Rusha]

If the cop's a jerk and or you haven't broken the law.

So if the cop is a jerk BUT you have broken the law, one shouldn't comply?

Also, IF one believes they have done nothing to warrant being pulled over, why stop at all?

The idea that anyone would even consider defying a cop's authority is so ingrained, however, and considered so deeply un-American, that most people react with that befuddled kind of squint and go: "Yeah but why would you do that?"

Only if you consider their authority valid. When do you or don't you consider their authority valid?

We're remarkably well trained. Who's a good boy?

As opposed to disobeying laws? It doesn't seem worth the hassle to be a "bad boy".

 

[glorydaz]

You're making a tremendous mistake if you're equating a career in law enforcement with military service. Not sure if that's what you meant but that is how this could be taken.

That's exactly what I meant and I don't believe it's a mistake to do so.

No one's ever disputed that. "Dangerous job is dangerous; sign up voluntarily" is the thinking behind fire and police departments both, last time I checked.

Good....we agree then.

People enter these fields for a variety of reasons. I will say the EMTs and firefighters I know, and have known, are some of the finest and most selfless (if slightly nuts; goes with the territory, and they cheerfully admit as much) men and women I've met.

True, and the police officers I know, and have known, are the same.

What exactly's sticking in your craw?

Nothing. Was I too mean?

 

[Granite]

That's exactly what I meant and I don't believe it's a mistake to do so.





Good....we agree then.





True, and the police officers I know, and have known, are the same.





Nothing. Was I too mean?

Your underwear seemed to be in a twist over something I said. And as usual when you try sounding indignant you come off more as a comic book villain than anything else. Guess we're okay then.

 

[Granite]

So if the cop is a jerk BUT you have broken the law, one shouldn't comply?

Let me put it this way: I'd prefer we lived in a society where any kind of situation would end if someone told a cop "I flashed my highbeams because I thought yours were on." That's it. No rigmarole, no nut with a gun shooting a kid seven times. You can't talk to a police officer as though they're anything other than a robot following a script. Deviate from the script and their programming kicks into effect. You're now construed as a threat. And literally everything you do now registers as non-compliance. Explain yourself to a cop? Argue with them? Dispute what they're saying? You get killed that way, Rusha, and I think that constitutes one heck of a problem.

Also, IF one believes they have done nothing to warrant being pulled over, why stop at all?

See above. Put another way, most folks go with the flow because they prefer not getting shot.

Only if you consider their authority valid. When do you or don't you consider their authority valid?

When used appropriately.

 

[glorydaz]

Just thinking that there's less and less left that'd really enrage people. At least for the right reasons. (We seem awfully good at getting worked up for the wrong ones.)

Kids shot by cops. We do nothing. Or we blame the kids.

Abuses of power. Violence. Brutality. We do nothing. Or keep blaming the victims.

We're pushed around and told to hush and take it. We're bullied and told to show the bullies "respect," as though it's required, not earned. We're told to be afraid, or respond in automatic protective fear, to lick the hand lest it beat or shoot or tase us.

And we're "free."

How about that.

Kinda like inciting a riot among the neighborhood kids...or a plot to run away from home. :think:


You could be the leader of the kids on a desert island....Lord of the Flies. :thumb:


But alas....

“We've got to have rules and obey them. After all, we're not savages. We're English, and the English are best at everything.”

“The world, that understandable and lawful world, was slipping away.”

― William Golding, Lord of the Flies

 

[Granite]

Kinda like inciting a riot among the neighborhood kids...or a plot to run away from home.

Respect is earned, not given. It's not automatic. And it doesn't come from a uniform or a gun.

 

[glorydaz]

Your underwear seemed to be in a twist over something I said. And as usual when you try sounding indignant you come off more as a comic book villain than anything else. Guess we're okay then.

Course we're okay, and it's always entertaining watching you try to be mean. Anyone who reads comic books can't be all bad.

 

[glorydaz]

Respect is earned, not given. It's not automatic. And it doesn't come from a uniform or a gun.

Actually it is both earned and given. The cops earn it by putting their lives on the line so the criminals don't overrun us. And all those who are being protected should give it....we owe it to them.

And it certainly does come from a uniform or a gun, because without those the criminals would have no respect for the law at all.

 

[Granite]

Actually it is both earned and given. The cops earn it by putting their lives on the line so the criminals don't overrun us. And all those who are being protected should give it....we owe it to them.

And it certainly does come from a uniform or a gun, because without those the criminals would have no respect for the law at all.

I judge people on a case by case basis. Your approach obviously differs. I have no automatic respect for a person because they happen to wear a uniform. It's their actions that matter.

 

[glorydaz]

I judge people on a case by case basis. Your approach obviously differs. I have no automatic respect for a person because they happen to wear a uniform. It's their actions that matter.

Yeah, and when law abiding citizens comply with the officer all goes as it should.

 

[Granite]

Yeah, and when law abiding citizens comply with the officer all goes as it should.

That's the whole "obey and we won't kill you" mentality I find repulsive but whatever floats your boat.

For as much as some folks here sneer quickly at so-called European "police states" and go loud and long about "tyranny" and loving "liberty" it seems these same "patriots" have a pretty significant blind spot.

 

[glorydaz]

That's the whole "obey and we won't kill you" mentality I find repulsive but whatever floats your boat.

It's too bad you feel that way. I've never heard it said nor even implied. The fact is we have LAW and ORDER and we must have officers to enforce it.

They don't know if the person they stop is a regular joe or a mad whacko. I see every cop as a father, a son, a brother, and if you would adopt that mentality you'd spend less time being "repulsed".

 

[GuySmiley]

I understand what you're saying.

"Papers, please."

"Just do what you told, and we won't shoot you."

"Obey, if you know what's good for you."

"Comply, comply, comply. Or we'll hurt you and get away with it."

Trust me. I get it. Oh boy. Do I.

And you know, these little excuses? These weasely, squirming, pathetic, cowardly excuses? I'm sick of them. I like you, Quetzal, and you generally have your head on straight, but I'm finished having any kind of patience with "pretty please just do as they say." That's the wide-eyed, anxious, trying-to-smile fear of someone who's conditioned to be afraid. And I'm sick to death of that attitude. It's defeatist and appalling.

So when pulled over for a valid reason, you advocate not giving the cop your license and registration? Is that only for laws you consider stupid or all laws?

 

[Granite]

It's too bad you feel that way. I've never heard it said nor even implied. The fact is we have LAW and ORDER and we must have officers to enforce it.

They don't know if the person they stop is a regular joe or a mad whacko. I see every cop as a father, a son, a brother, and if you would adopt that mentality you'd spend less time being "repulsed".

I consider them bag men for the state at best and potential killers of anyone they feel like until proven otherwise. Different strokes. If they stopped being law enforcers and went back to being peacekeepers it's a completely different story.

 

[glorydaz]

I consider them bag men for the state at best and potential killers of anyone they feel like until proven otherwise. Different strokes. If they stopped being law enforcers and went back to being peacekeepers it's a completely different story.

Well, I think their very presence is peace keeping. The crooks always wait until the cops pass by before they break into a store. And you know how many cops there are compared to law breakers? They can't be everywhere all the time.