17 Year Old Shot And Killed By Cop

[Granite]

Major Reform? How about leadership from the top down that does not incite social disorder? How about a society that supports officers and expects a no tolerance policy for violent criminals? The only abuse I see is a minority opinion that police are the problem, instead of a culture that makes excuses for bad behavior.

You believe the onus is on the people, not on those who bear the sword. In other words, you don't think it's cops who need to reform their behavior, but all of us.

McDonald has been charged for his crime

McDonald's the dead guy, rocketman.

you can join the protest with the rest of the disingenuous in Chicago that want to highlight one police shooting of a black man while ignoring the 456 homicides 80.2% of which are black males shooting other black males... your outrage is sorely misplaced.

Are you using "thug" as a synonym for "black person"? Serious question.

So, I assume you are asserting that thugs make up "the public at large"?

It appears the police treat all of us as potential enemies, not as a public to be served. Otherwise their behavior would be radically different.

Changes everything, including how you protect yourself & react when you face danger... You have unrealistic expectations IMO.

Expecting the police not to shoot people with impunity or without cause is not unreasonable.

Sorry, don't see it...I say don't be a thug, show the man the respect due his position (i.e. respect authority) and you have a overwhelming chance that your interface with law enforcement will go smoothly and you may just find that the officer will show you the same respect. Amazing how civility works that way...

We've been over this before. I say respect is earned, not automatic, and you completely disagree.

The 99% of good cops are aiding and abetting? You have proof that this is the case? Do I believe that they are not quick to indict their own without the proof being overwhelmingly conclusive? Yes but, that is hardly aiding and abetting, and is understandable with thug protecters so willing to convict them on appearance rather than facts.

Your beliefs are odds with the facts. They circle the wagons and protect their own. It's whistleblowers who bring down the full wrath of departments, not "rogue" officers who shoot first and ask questions afterward.

I believe it was not but, he will have his day in court to explain it...if he can.

Once again: McDonald is the dead guy. He won't ever have a chance to do anything again.

Unfortunate incident, something similar happened locally, and I live in a relatively small town. Kids playing laser tag at the local high school after dark, police were dispatched that there were "people at the school with guns", officers arrived searching the grounds with weapons drawn, cop comes around the corner to a person pointing a gun with a red laser at him, kid was shot dead. It was terrible thing but, when an officer is faced with a potential life & death situation mistakes like this can be made, it seems that this was the case with Tamir as well.

Yes, the old "stuff happens" defense.

Actually Yes he was, he was asked to submit to authority multiple times before he assaulted the officer then the incident escalated into a physical altercation. Had Garner obeyed authority, not resisted the officer this would not have ended the way it did...Garner is responsible for his own death as I see it.

He "assaulted" no one and was murdered in broad daylight. Anything goes.

Another unfortunate case where an officer trying to protect himself from the family dog accidentally shot the owner. I know, I know... he should have just stood there and allowed himself to get mauled but, the sane all agree that while unfortunate, the officer was justified in protecting himself from attack, and the unfortunate result from doing so was unintentional.

And what business does he have wearing a uniform? Look: Either these guys are held accountable or they're not. If they shouldn't be, as you seem to be suggesting, then the assumption's that none of us are safe when they arrive on the scene to "help." We see this happen all the time: Someone calls 911 and it's the worst decision they ever make, because the cops arrive and shoot someone to death.

Yep! You guessed it, I could not give a damn whether a thug gets injured or killed for their thuggery

No one needed to guess.

 

[rocketman]

The officer that killed Lequan McDonald had 18 complaints from citizens, including brutality, excessive force and racial slurs. Guess you don't have to worry about cops like that.

That goes to leadership of that department now doesn't it? I guess it is just easier to besmirch law enforcement at large for the actions of this man & those that sit in leadership of that officer, right? :think: Who runs the show in Chicago???? :think: would that be the liberal buddy of Obama? Rahm Emanuel? :think: Do you still assert that there is no connection with poor liberal leadership and crime waves they accept in the cities they lead? Lots of questions for you to answer there Pat...I'll leave to ponder it yourself....

 

[patrick jane]

That goes to leadership of that department now doesn't it? I guess it is just easier to besmirch law enforcement at large for the actions of this man & those that sit in leadership of that officer, right? :think: Who runs the show in Chicago???? :think: would that be the liberal buddy of Obama? Rahm Emanuel? :think: Do you still assert that there is no connection with poor liberal leadership and crime waves they accept in the cities they lead? Lots of questions for you to answer there Pat...I'll leave to ponder it yourself....

I never asserted that there's no connection between poor leadership and crime.

I have never attacked law enforcement at large. Like the OP incident I question deadly force in excess from unstable cops. I obey all laws and respect law enforcement, to be clear. I lack the proper hands on experience to understand how 14 more shots after the kid is down and is no longer a threat equates in real time. Again it's the rubber bullet mentality, what do these guys think they are shooting, BBs ?

I agree with poor leadership and the crime that is shown to go with it. St. Louis will break the homicide record again this year as well. Furthermore, I'm not liberal or Democrat, so please stop implying that my views are similar to liberals or Obama or Rahm. I support law enforcement at every level, I don't support overkill and excessive force.

 

[ok doser]

The kid did not deserve to be shot dead.

what did he deserve?

what had he earned by his actions?

 

[rocketman]

You believe the onus is on the people, not on those who bear the sword. In other words, you don't think it's cops who need to reform their behavior, but all of us.

Violence begets violence Granite, respect for the law and those that enforce it seems to be the best response we as citizens should take. My belief is that those in charge Rahm Emanual in this case are directly responsible for this incident and the acceptance of the crime wave that is running rampant in Chicago. If the department needs to change than the onus to change it is the people by voting competent people to lead their locales, and expecting results. The change needs to be top down not bottom up, it was department leadership that allowed this officer to continue on the force whilst ignoring his transgressions which only shows me that leadership has failed not just this one officer.

McDonald's the dead guy, rocketman.

My bad, I got myself mixed up, yes, you are correct.

Are you using "thug" as a synonym for "black person"? Serious question.

No, a thug (to me) is any criminal.

It appears the police treat all of us as potential enemies, not as a public to be served. Otherwise their behavior would be radically different.

There are almost 60,000 assaults against officers per year in the U.S., 16,000 of which cause injury, does it really startle you that they look at all situations as a potential threat?

Expecting the police not to shoot people with impunity or without cause is not unreasonable.

I think you are embellishing the facts, nor do I see police as shooting with impunity without cause, I do however see a culture that has no respect for the law or authority from the top down which is more problematic.

We've been over this before. I say respect is earned, not automatic, and you completely disagree.

You go with that next time you interface with law enforcement and see where that gets you. The bottom line is the man with the badge is the authority figure in society, like it or not, and not to respect that authority is to your own peril...you deserve what you get in that case.

Your beliefs are odds with the facts. They circle the wagons and protect their own. It's whistleblowers who bring down the full wrath of departments, not "rogue" officers who shoot first and ask questions afterward.

No, it is poor leadership top down that sets the tone for what is policy. I would think after seeing the results of poor leadership and poor policy decisions for the past 7 years you could see the results but, I guess it is easier to gloss over that.

Once again: McDonald is the dead guy. He won't ever have a chance to do anything again.

I screwed up the names, I get it...don't taze me bro!

He "assaulted" no one and was murdered in broad daylight. Anything goes.

456 murders and counting in Chicago this year...yes, it would appear so.

And what business does he have wearing a uniform? Look: Either these guys are held accountable or they're not. If they shouldn't be, as you seem to be suggesting, then the assumption's that none of us are safe when they arrive on the scene to "help." We see this happen all the time: Someone calls 911 and it's the worst decision they ever make, because the cops arrive and shoot someone to death.

And once again the officer is being held accountable and outside of holding leadership accountable you are just peeing in the wind getting all wet.

No one needed to guess.

I wrote it so you wouldn't have to.

 

[Granite]

Violence begets violence Granite, respect for the law and those that enforce it seems to be the best response we as citizens should take.

Respect cuts both ways. I see little to no respect for the public from law enforcement at large.

My belief is that those in charge Rahm Emanual in this case are directly responsible for this incident and the acceptance of the crime wave that is running rampant in Chicago.

I'd say Officer Van Dyke's the guy responsible considering he's the one who did the actual killing. Yes, other heads should roll, but let's not lose track of the shooter in this situation.

If the department needs to change than the onus to change it is the people by voting competent people to lead their locales, and expecting results.

Strikes me as the tyranny of low expectations: You don't seem to really consider internal reform and improvement possible from within the police. What does that tell you?

The change needs to be top down not bottom up, it was department leadership that allowed this officer to continue on the force whilst ignoring his transgressions which only shows me that leadership has failed not just this one officer.

The officer is certainly a failure, as well. But he's simply a symptom of a larger problem and system that allowed him to act like a maniac for years with impunity. CPD didn't hold this guy in check or hold him accountable. Considering the rot within this department it's not that Van Dyke went rogue. If anything, he strikes me as pretty typical.

There are almost 60,000 assaults against officers per year in the U.S., 16,000 of which cause injury, does it really startle you that they look at all situations as a potential threat?

If shooting first is their only solution their training needs to be reworked.

I think you are embellishing the facts, nor do I see police as shooting with impunity without cause, I do however see a culture that has no respect for the law or authority from the top down which is more problematic.

The record needs no embellishment. It speaks for itself.

You go with that next time you interface with law enforcement and see where that gets you.

You seem to want a cowed, frightened public that fears cops. Respect and fear aren't the same thing. If a cop abuses his authority, acts like a jerk, and is all around an abusive human being, go ahead and respect that kind of piggishness all you like. I certainly won't. A gun and a badge cuts zero ice in my book.

No, it is poor leadership top down that sets the tone for what is policy. I would think after seeing the results of poor leadership and poor policy decisions for the past 7 years you could see the results but, I guess it is easier to gloss over that.

Give me a break. This entire issue is way older than just seven measly years.

456 murders and counting in Chicago this year...yes, it would appear so.

Once again: Eric Garner assaulted no one. The police choked him to death.

And once again the officer is being held accountable and outside of holding leadership accountable you are just peeing in the wind getting all wet.

Yes. One murderous thug with a badge is being held accountable. Whoopdiedoo. It's better than nothing, I guess, but it's not the solution to these problems. There's zero guarantee he'll ever even do time.

 

[rocketman]

Respect cuts both ways. I see little to no respect for the public from law enforcement at large.

Respect or just allowing criminals be criminals in peace? Respect is two way street I will agree, do you see any respect for the law, or law enforcement, from the top? Nope, in fact Obama, Holder, & co. have done more damage, shown a complete lack of respect for, and have undermined the very fabric of the law through their actions and rhetoric. If you want to assign blame for lack of respect the POTUS and his administration is great place to start.

I'd say Officer Van Dyke's the guy responsible considering he's the one who did the actual killing. Yes, other heads should roll, but let's not lose track of the shooter in this situation.

Oh that is the easy answer but, it gets much more difficult when you examine the fact this officer had a background of offenses that were ignored, and that blame lays squarely on the shoulders of leadership or the lack thereof. Who is the Chief of police's boss? Thats right, good ole mayor Rahm and if his expectations for law enforcement along with the behavior of his officers is allowed who is at fault? If ole Rahm was doing his job, he would expected results on crime much earlier in his tenure moreover, if he set down policies for law enforcement maybe Van Dyke would have been let go long before his transgressions turned into tragedy. Van Dyke is guilty yes, but to give any of the leadership a pass in this is sickening.

Strikes me as the tyranny of low expectations: You don't seem to really consider internal reform and improvement possible from within the police. What does that tell you?

I love that term...it fits our current administration to the tee, as well as the city of Chicago's choice in leadership. Improvement within comes from the top down, not the bottom up. It is culture change which only comes through an alternate form of leadership. Look at New York under Giuliani, turned an entire culture of crime around through leadership and I couldn't care less that criminals were harassed in the process...they deserve no better.

The officer is certainly a failure, as well. But he's simply a symptom of a larger problem and system that allowed him to act like a maniac for years with impunity. CPD didn't hold this guy in check or hold him accountable. Considering the rot within this department it's not that Van Dyke went rogue. If anything, he strikes me as pretty typical.

Again who is responsible for the leadership & direction of a city's police dept? Ahhh, that would be it's mayor, & chief of police appointed by the mayor, or voted in some cases.

If shooting first is their only solution their training needs to be reworked.

OK, lets say that is the case, who is responsible for dept. policy? training? protocol? yep, that would be leadership yet again.

The record needs no embellishment. It speaks for itself.

No, that was your opinion, you had no citation with that post. I say it was an embellishment, prove me wrong.

You seem to want a cowed, frightened public that fears cops. Respect and fear aren't the same thing. If a cop abuses his authority, acts like a jerk, and is all around an abusive human being, go ahead and respect that kind of piggishness all you like. I certainly won't. A gun and a badge cuts zero ice in my book.

There is a difference between fear & respect. I don't fear the police because I have nothing to be afraid of, I am not a thug, brandishing weapons looking for the forceful reaction. In this case the victim could have certainly been subdued without being shot to death but, that is not always the case now is it.

Give me a break. This entire issue is way older than just seven measly years.

In your opinion...yet again, and if your saying cops never have cause to use deadly force, you would be wrong. This trend of demonizing law enforcement for dealing with violent criminals started at the top seven years ago...remember "oh come have a beer with me at the white house, I jumped to conclusions" Obama/Holder has been inciting criminal behavior and racial division ever since... but yea, it is the cops fault for that behavior as well right?

Once again: Eric Garner assaulted no one. The police choked him to death.

Wrong, a police officer attempted to deal with him without force, when the officer went to cuff him he swatted the cop's arm away and the scuffle ensued. He did it to himself, Garner could still be schlepping illegal cigarettes & committing other petty crimes today if he would have complied with the police. Garner was his own worst enemy and I don't feel pity for his loss, he is responsible for his actions.

Yes. One murderous thug with a badge is being held accountable. Whoopdiedoo. It's better than nothing, I guess, but it's not the solution to these problems. There's zero guarantee he'll ever even do time.

We will have to see how it plays out...

 

[ok doser]

Once again: Eric Garner assaulted no one. The police choked him to death.

eric garner resisted arrest and was taken to the ground. Once on the ground the "chokehold" was released and, if he hadn't had asthma, he would have been processed like any other moron who had chosen to resist arrest. Unfortunately, his asthma kicked in and he died.

Take-away lesson? If you have asthma, don't resist arrest.

4:20

...

 

[Granite]

Respect or just allowing criminals be criminals in peace? Respect is two way street I will agree, do you see any respect for the law, or law enforcement, from the top? Nope, in fact Obama, Holder, & co. have done more damage, shown a complete lack of respect for, and have undermined the very fabric of the law through their actions and rhetoric. If you want to assign blame for lack of respect the POTUS and his administration is great place to start.

Right. It's all on Obama. I should've seen this coming.

Oh that is the easy answer but, it gets much more difficult when you examine the fact this officer had a background of offenses that were ignored, and that blame lays squarely on the shoulders of leadership or the lack thereof. Who is the Chief of police's boss? Thats right, good ole mayor Rahm and if his expectations for law enforcement along with the behavior of his officers is allowed who is at fault? If ole Rahm was doing his job, he would expected results on crime much earlier in his tenure moreover, if he set down policies for law enforcement maybe Van Dyke would have been let go long before his transgressions turned into tragedy. Van Dyke is guilty yes, but to give any of the leadership a pass in this is sickening.

Chicago PD was dirty and rotten long before Rahm showed up.

I love that term...it fits our current administration to the tee, as well as the city of Chicago's choice in leadership. Improvement within comes from the top down, not the bottom up. It is culture change which only comes through an alternate form of leadership. Look at New York under Giuliani, turned an entire culture of crime around through leadership and I couldn't care less that criminals were harassed in the process...they deserve no better.

Says every fascist everywhere.

OK, lets say that is the case, who is responsible for dept. policy? training? protocol? yep, that would be leadership yet again.

There is a major problem with police abuse of power, use of force, and loss of civil liberties going on...and you're using this thread as an excuse to bash Obama. That's beyond small-minded and short-sighted.

In your opinion...yet again, and if your saying cops never have cause to use deadly force, you would be wrong.

Which is why I haven't said this and won't.

Wrong, a police officer attempted to deal with him without force, when the officer went to cuff him he swatted the cop's arm away and the scuffle ensued.

That's not assault, nor is it evidence the fellow was a "violent criminal." Seriously, it's like I'm talking to a blackshirt here.

He did it to himself, Garner could still be schlepping illegal cigarettes & committing other petty crimes today

i

And who the hell should care? Let him, already. The answer every totalitarian has comes out the end of a gun.

 

[rocketman]

Right. It's all on Obama. I should've seen this coming.

He and his cronies are the chief law enforcers in this country (not to mention he hails from Chicago,no?), I am logically putting the blame where it belongs from the top down, you can move next to Bruce Rauner the governor of Illinois, and on to Rahm Emanuel the mayor of Chicago all of which hold the major share of culpability for the crime riddled city of Chicago. One officer is not to blame for an entire culture.

Chicago PD was dirty and rotten long before Rahm showed up.

I am well aware of Chicago politics and the correlation to the criminal element in that city & State, it is a cesspool of rotten politicians & criminals.

Says every fascist everywhere.

:chuckle: you will have to be more specific when throwing a quip because you lost me...

There is a major problem with police abuse of power, use of force, and loss of civil liberties going on...and you're using this thread as an excuse to bash Obama. That's beyond small-minded and short-sighted.

I am not using it to just bash Obama though he is great example of how inept leadership can have a big effect. I have tried to assign blame locally in Chicago as well, though I guess you are not hearing that as well. The blame as I see it for any police policy does not lie in the rank & file it sits squarely at the top but, I guess your too short sighted & small minded to get that.

That's not assault, nor is it evidence the fellow was a "violent criminal." Seriously, I'm talking to a blackshirt here.

No, you are talking to a person that respects the law & those that enforce it and could not give a rip what bad things befall criminals especially when they are bringing violence against society...that includes violence against cops.

And who the hell should care? Let him, already. The answer every totalitarian has comes out the end of a gun.

Either we have laws or we don't Granite, be careful, don't let logic come & smack you in the face because freedom & liberty also came from the barrel of a gun..."live free or die" and all that right? Open your eyes, you see better that way.

 

[rocketman]

I never asserted that there's no connection between poor leadership and crime.

I am the one asserting that there is a direct correlation...

I have never attacked law enforcement at large. Like the OP incident I question deadly force in excess from unstable cops.

I did not say you did, I will point out however that it seems to be the "In Vogue" or fashionable thing for leadership & some citizens to do these days is bash law enforcement for attempting to clean up the mess that their poor leadership & policies have wrought. They have made criminals out to be victims, & the police the big bad overlords which is not the case for the majority. Leadership have incited racial division, and hailed criminality for political gain, heck they are criminals themselves, and the aftermath of their handiwork is soaring crime rates and ongoing racial tension. These so-called leaders make me sick to my stomach.

I obey all laws and respect law enforcement, to be clear. I lack the proper hands on experience to understand how 14 more shots after the kid is down and is no longer a threat equates in real time. Again it's the rubber bullet mentality, what do these guys think they are shooting, BBs ?

I don't see the imminent threat either, nor do I see a case for the use of deadly force. The state prosecutor took almost a year to tie up all the loose ends to be able to prosecute this officer for 1st degree murder. I don't think they waited this long to hide it, I believe they removed all doubt that could have been posited by taking the time to build an airtight case.

I agree with poor leadership and the crime that is shown to go with it. St. Louis will break the homicide record again this year as well. Furthermore, I'm not liberal or Democrat, so please stop implying that my views are similar to liberals or Obama or Rahm. I support law enforcement at every level, I don't support overkill and excessive force.

I have not implied you are a liberal, you said in another thread that you could not vote for a mormon so , I may have inferred you voted for this inept president, furthermore you never corrected me when I made the inference, what's a guy to think? :idunno:

 

[Granite]

He and his cronies are the chief law enforcers in this country

No, not really. The president does not enforce the law. Ain't his job.

(not to mention he hails from Chicago,no?)

Which in this case means absolutely nothing.

I am logically putting the blame where it belongs from the top down, you can move next to Bruce Rauner the governor of Illinois, and on to Rahm Emanuel the mayor of Chicago all of which hold the major share of culpability for the crime riddled city of Chicago. One officer is not to blame for an entire culture.

You've taken one good step: Acknowledging a rotten police culture exists and needs to be reformed. If all you can see is "Obama" then there's not much else to say.

you will have to be more specific when throwing a quip because you lost me...

It wasn't a quip. You're a fascist.

No, you are talking to a person that respects the law & those that enforce it and could not give a rip what bad things befall criminals especially when they are bringing violence against society...that includes violence against cops.

Then you don't actually believe in rule of law or due process.

 

[patrick jane]

.

Unfortunately I did vote for Obama the first time

 

[rocketman]

No, not really. The president does not enforce the law. Ain't his job.

You are wrong, it is in his job description to make sure that laws are enforced.

Article II of the constitution: ''he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed,''

That means he has subordinates that are to enforce for him but, make no mistake he is the head of the law enforcement spear and his enforcer is the Attorney General his cabinet pick. I am fully aware that this president is piss poor at keeping or enforcing the laws but, it is his job the constitution says so.

Which in this case means absolutely nothing.

Just an observation a crooked lawless president from a crooked lawless city...just a coincidence? :think:

You've taken one good step: Acknowledging a rotten police culture exists and needs to be reformed. If all you can see is "Obama" then there's not much else to say.

I see police entirely different than you do, they deal with the villains, they stand guard for those that cannot or will not serve. I have nothing but, the utmost respect for what they do, and feel for them that they silently serve in spite of the ingrates that despise them. If there is a bad culture it is those that fail to lead them, not in their service, especially in as violent a place as Chicago, in some respects they are victims of their environment, and isn't that the same excuse liberals use for violent inner city criminals...victims of their environment? If we did not see this sort of crap going on all over the country I would probably blame the local leadership but, Obama has lit this fire so he can own it.

It wasn't a quip. You're a fascist.

And you are a booger eatin moron who does't know what the word means you pompous buffoon!

Then you don't actually believe in rule of law or due process.

Yep, I also believe in deadly force when the life of the officer or the public's safety is concerned. This incident was not a case for deadly force and I believe that the state prosecutor sat on this for nearly a year to build an airtight case for 1st murder.

 

[rocketman]

.

Unfortunately I did vote for Obama the first time

Ouch!

 

[Granite]

That means he has subordinates that are to enforce for him but, make no mistake he is the head of the law enforcement spear and his enforcer is the Attorney General his cabinet pick. I am fully aware that this president is piss poor at keeping or enforcing the laws but, it is his job the constitution says so.

There you go again. Obama bashing. You guys really can't do better.

Just an observation a crooked lawless president from a crooked lawless city...just a coincidence?

Next. :yawn:

I see police entirely different than you do

Ya think.:chuckle:

they deal with the villains

Funny how it doesn't seem to occur to you that cops also deal with innocent people all the time.

they stand guard for those that cannot or will not serve.

Cops are actually under no obligation to prevent crime. "Stand guard"? Where do you think you live, rocketman?

If there is a bad culture it is those that fail to lead them

Sure. It's never the cops themselves; they never need to change, they don't need to reform, they don't need to clean their act up. They're just easily misled naive public servants too stupid to realize they've been duped. I don't know if you realize it but this is exactly what you're implying. You pay police officers zero compliments by implying they literally can't figure out how not to run amok without being told what to do.

not in their service, especially in as violent a place as Chicago, in some respects they are victims of their environment, and isn't that the same excuse liberals use for violent inner city criminals...victims of their environment?

So why the heck are you using it?:AMR:

If we did not see this sort of crap going on all over the country I would probably blame the local leadership but, Obama has lit this fire so he can own it.

Oh get over yourself already.:yawn:

And you are a booger eatin moron who does't know what the word means you pompous buffoon!

Are you for real here?:chuckle:

Yep, I also believe in deadly force when the life of the officer or the public's safety is concerned. This incident was not a case for deadly force and I believe that the state prosecutor sat on this for nearly a year to build an airtight case for 1st murder.

Wait, are you actually agreeing with me when I said you don't believe in due process or rule of law?

 

[rocketman]

There you go again. Obama bashing. You guys really can't do better.

Credit where credit is due...

Ya think.:chuckle:

No, I don't think...I know.

Funny how it doesn't seem to occur to you that cops also deal with innocent people all the time.

And your point? I have not had a cop rough me up, or shoot me, nor have any of my family or friends...:idunno: Funny where respect for authority will get ya but, that's the rub now isn't it? respecting authority...a sorely lacking quality in our country these days. It starts in grade schools where parents back their rotten kids over the adult teachers in authority, and graduates into spoiled brat citizens that think they can defy public authority i.e. Law Enforcement...and people wonder why society is screwed up.

Cops are actually under no obligation to prevent crime.

Then who does? the citizenry? if that be the case you will see a lot more criminals being shot without due process, are you an anarchist Granite? If cops are not there to prevent crime & the criminals that would violently harm others define who is...if you can. Not a very well thought out statement on your part.

"Stand guard"? Where do you think you live, rocketman?

Standing guard is to watch over, and that is what police do, stand watch over the public to serve & protect. Your overt hatred for these men & women is duly noted...

Sure. It's never the cops themselves; they never need to change, they don't need to reform, they don't need to clean their act up.

Personally, I don't see a major problem with police as you do, I do however see a more violent, a more emboldened criminal element that cops are dealing with. Of course like any organization they have some bad apples but, for the greater majority police officers are not the villains that you personally make them out to be, in fact they are the unsung heroes of society.

They're just easily misled naive public servants too stupid to realize they've been duped. I don't know if you realize it but this is exactly what you're implying. You pay police officers zero compliments by implying they literally can't figure out how not to run amok without being told what to do.

I believe that the police react as they have been trained and as policy requires. If there is a change in policy who makes that? If there is going to be a change made in tactics of dealing with a situation who will define what those changes will be? Are you suggesting that there should be no chain of command and the rank & file are to define how to handle a given situation on the fly? Talk about run amok...you really haven't thought this out much, or just don't want to agree that change comes from the top down.

Oh get over yourself already.:yawn:

Is that the best you got? Denial that your president & his administration have incited, even encouraged the behavior we are seeing across this country that police are reacting to? Are you just being willfully ignorant to reality? If what I am saying is not the case, what has he, or his administration done to stop it through rhetoric or action? The answer is absolutely nothing, in fact I would say he has poured gasoline on that fire. You get over yourself...or at least attempt to be honest about it, if you can.

Are you for real here?:chuckle:

As for real as you were calling me a fascist, you answer it. Are you for real? if so than my response stands.

Wait, are you actually agreeing with me when I said you don't believe in due process or rule of law?

It may have come across that way but, no, I do believe in the rule of law and due process, I also believe that deadly force is an acceptable response to violent criminals if they threaten the lives of police or the public.

 

[badp]

The adult (17 is not a "kid") deserved it

 

[patrick jane]

The adult (17 is not a "kid") deserved it

18 is an adult dummy

 

[ok doser]

if he had knifed the cop, how much you wanna bet he would have been tried as an adult?