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[Granite]

Originally posted by Gerald

Adultery causes murder, does it?

Whose hat did you pull that out of?

Ever see The Shawshank Redemption?

Oh, wait...the guy was innocent...

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010

How exactly is this a manageable law? Are we going to just take a husband's word for it, if he accuses his wife of cheating on him? We would require hard evidence ala private investigator? What would the litmus test be for executing a guilty party, and would mitigating circumstances--sterility; abuse; on and on--be called into question as well?

It would be investigated just like any other alleged crime.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Zakath

Think about the number of preachers we could watch walk to the gallows. All those people free at last!

Very few people would "walk to the gallows" because once the law would go into effect, the vast majority of people would stop committing adultery.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Jefferson

It would be investigated just like any other alleged crime.

How exactly do you investigate alleged adultery? Just on the whim of a suspicious spouse? Who would be doing the investigating? Would there be a task force of some kind assigned to run down suspected sex offenders (adulterers, homosexuals, etc.)?

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Jefferson

Very few people would "walk to the gallows" because once the law would go into effect, the vast majority of people would stop committing adultery.

That's the logic behind the death penalty for murder, too.

Yet, America has one of the highest murder rates of the Western world...

I do not view the death penalty as a deterrent, but as a removal system. :think:

 

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Jefferson
What about federal income taxes?

:doh: Forgot about those. Or maybe just repressed the memory.

Originally posted by Jefferson
All you have to do is look at the low percentage of murder and violent crime in countries which today impose a swift death penalty for murder such as Singapore. It's proven to work.

Not in the US.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167

Originally posted by Jefferson
The laws which contain no intrinsic protection against harm to one's self, one's neighbor or society in general are usually symbolic laws.

Usually?

Originally posted by Jefferson
Like I said before, our death penalty for murder comes straight from the Bible but it is not enforced by the clergy. So where is the revolution by atheists and agnostics?

I doubt that that law came from the Bible. It seems to me that it came from the idea that people who are scared of get killed for committing a crime won't commit crimes.

That's beside the point, though. I'm trying to figure out the difference between your system and an ecclessiocracy.

Originally posted by Jefferson
Nothing. Some kings will act immorally just like our entire country acts immorally today by voting for candidates who promise to keep abortion legal.

Then what would be the difference between having an immoral monarch and an immoral citizenry?

Also, not everyone votes for pro-abortion candidates.

 

[Zakath]

The problem with Jefferson's POV is that all countries that impose a swift death penalty are "heathen" in his book. His religion seems to mitigate against such things... :think:

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Jefferson
Very few people would "walk to the gallows" because once the law would go into effect, the vast majority of people would stop committing adultery.

:darwinsm:

What color is the sky on that planet you're living on?

Y'know, for somebody who claims to have been manning the barricades against evil, you are seriously, seriously naive.

People will continue as they always have, biblical laws or no; if anything, they will simply go to greater lengths to avoid getting caught.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010

How exactly do you investigate alleged adultery? Just on the whim of a suspicious spouse? Who would be doing the investigating? Would there be a task force of some kind assigned to run down suspected sex offenders (adulterers, homosexuals, etc.)?

It would be done the exact same way we investigate incest, child molestation, rape, etc. Adultery would simply be one more on the list. What's the big logistical difficulty?

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Zakath

That's the logic behind the death penalty for murder, too.

Yet, America has one of the highest murder rates of the Western world...

I do not view the death penalty as a deterrent, but as a removal system. :think:

It's not a deterrent in America because it's not done the right way. Just any death penalty is not automatically a deterrent. It needs to be a swift and public death penalty. Not one where the perpetrator gets to play basketball for 20 years in Club Fed and then finally gently put to sleep behind closed doors.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Greywolf
Not in the US.

See my above post to Zakath.

I doubt that that law came from the Bible.

It does when I vote. When I vote for pro-death penalty candidates I do so not primarily because I think it is a good law. Instead, I vote for them because they are in agreement with the Bible on that issue. I vote for them because I am trying to "impose" Biblical law upon the lifestyles of nonchristians. Do you think I am violating the "separation of church and state" when I do this?

I'm trying to figure out the difference between your system and an ecclessiocracy.

In "my" system pastors would have no authority to decide whether America would go to war for example. The monarch would be wise to consider their Biblical advice on the matter but that would be the only influence they would have.

Then what would be the difference between having an immoral monarch and an immoral citizenry?

It would be more likely that one monarch repent than an entire citizenry repent.

Also, not everyone votes for pro-abortion candidates.

But enough of them do to keep it legal which proves my point: The majority is evil. It is far more likely to have one righteous monarch than an entire nation filled with righteous voters.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Jefferson

It would be done the exact same way we investigate incest, child molestation, rape, etc. Adultery would simply be one more on the list. What's the big logistical difficulty?

These crimes are not capital offenses currently. In your proposed system, they would be, thus raising the stakes (whether or not rape or molesting a child SHOULD be a capital offense is a subject for another thread). Considering the slender evidence usually brought against rapists now--and the difficulty of getting a conviction--imagine the challenges in trying to "prove" adultery, especially in a he-said she-said situation.

 

[Zakath]

Originally posted by Jefferson

It's not a deterrent in America because it's not done the right way. Just any death penalty is not automatically a deterrent. It needs to be a swift and public death penalty. Not one where the perpetrator gets to play basketball for 20 years in Club Fed and then finally gently put to sleep behind closed doors.

"Club Fed" is generally reserved for minor offenders and white collar criminals like Martha Stewart or Charles Colson. Have you ever actually been to a prison where capital criminals are incarcerated?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Zakath

"Club Fed" is generally reserved for minor offenders and white collar criminals like Martha Stewart or Charles Colson. Have you ever actually been to a prison where capital criminals are incarcerated?

Not a lot of fun, I'll tell you...try being a skinny white kid strolling down a cell block...

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010

These crimes are not capital offenses currently. In your proposed system, they would be, thus raising the stakes (whether or not rape or molesting a child SHOULD be a capital offense is a subject for another thread). Considering the slender evidence usually brought against rapists now--and the difficulty of getting a conviction--imagine the challenges in trying to "prove" adultery, especially in a he-said she-said situation.

A suspicious spouse rigs his/her bedroom with a miniature camera. Adultery would be very easy to prove in many cases.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Zakath

"Club Fed" is generally reserved for minor offenders and white collar criminals like Martha Stewart or Charles Colson. Have you ever actually been to a prison where capital criminals are incarcerated?

It's Club Fed compared to what they should get: A swift, painful, public execution.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Jefferson

It's Club Fed compared to what they should get: A swift, painful, public execution.

Isn't a SWIFT execution designed to avoid unnecessary PAIN?

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Jefferson
A suspicious spouse rigs his/her bedroom with a miniature camera. Adultery would be very easy to prove in many cases.

You realize how easy that is to foil, don't you? Just don't engage in monkey business at home...

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Jefferson
In "my" system pastors would have no authority to decide whether America would go to war for example. The monarch would be wise to consider their Biblical advice on the matter but that would be the only influence they would have.

In your system, the monarch avoids going to war unless the barbarians are actually at the gate, breaking it down.

At that point, it is too late...

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010

Isn't a SWIFT execution designed to avoid unnecessary PAIN?

By "swift" I mean execution within 24 hours of conviction instead of 24 years.