A question for Catholics (Roman)

Feral Phoenician

Feral Phoenician

New member
I mentioned prior I had been married to a Christian woman. However, she is Charismatic (Nondenominational/Pentecostal), and I'm well aware it's nothing like the RCC.

In her church (and churches like it, we "had" to go to church even when on vacation) they constantly spoke of "getting the Holy Ghost", which, yes, had to be explained to me.

From what I was told, the RCC not only does not preach such a doctrine, but is "hostile" to it (not my term, which is why it is in quotations).

If this is the case (Google had mixed results, yes, I went there first), how so and why so? Is "speaking in tongues" actually considered "demonic possession"?
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
the church has approved the charismatic movement
-but
-doesn't promote it
-it may be the only thing that works for some
-don't be hostile to it
-the heart and mind should work together
-all heart and no mind is a risky endeavor
 
beameup

beameup

New member
There is an approved charismatic Catholic group in the Philippines called "El Shaddai", and I assume elsewhere also. There is also a "born again" Catholic group in the Philippines (believe it or not).
The RCC will "accommodate" almost anything as long as you don't leave.
 
S

SonOfCaleb

Active member
Feral Phoenician said:
I mentioned prior I had been married to a Christian woman. However, she is Charismatic (Nondenominational/Pentecostal), and I'm well aware it's nothing like the RCC.

In her church (and churches like it, we "had" to go to church even when on vacation) they constantly spoke of "getting the Holy Ghost", which, yes, had to be explained to me.

From what I was told, the RCC not only does not preach such a doctrine, but is "hostile" to it (not my term, which is why it is in quotations).

If this is the case (Google had mixed results, yes, I went there first), how so and why so? Is "speaking in tongues" actually considered "demonic possession"?
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The ability to receive 'Gifts of the [Holy] Spirit' ended with the death of the last Apostle John. The Apostles were directly given these abilities by Jesus including Paul. The practice of giving these gifts via the holy spirit was known by the 'Laying on of the hands'. Basically the Apostle would place his hand on the disciple and provide a miraculous ability or gift.

All those receiving those gifts are long dead, as are the Apostles who were the only ones able to impart those gifts. Therefore the Pentecostal tradition of speaking in 'tongues' is clearly spurious. Usually their speaking in tongues consists of incoherent babbling. No ones ever been recorded of receiving a miraculous ability to speak fluently a language that was unknown to them. Thus the origin and source for this 'ability', if you can even call it that, is demonic in nature and not divine.
 
T

Truster

New member
All denominations are apostate. Any form of religion without regeneration is a work of sinful flesh and the prince of the power of the air.
 
R

radind

New member
There is danger in all large religious organizations. It is up to each individual to 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,'.
Philippians 2:12
 
T

Truster

New member
radind said:
There is danger in all large religious organizations. It is up to each individual to 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,'.
Philippians 2:12
Click to expand...

Working out your own salvation cannot be done until the person has been converted.
 
Feral Phoenician

Feral Phoenician

New member
Thank you for the replies. I had no idea the RCC had a Charismatic group, and certainly wasn't aware it had a "Born Again" group.

I'll be upfront and admit that I understand precious little of the various Christian denominations. What I am most "familiar" with is the church (and church setting) my ex wife attends. I was already fairly certain much of the information given to me about the different denominations, especially the RCC, was heavily biased.

Again, thank you.
 
Feral Phoenician

Feral Phoenician

New member
SonOfCaleb said:
The ability to receive 'Gifts of the [Holy] Spirit' ended with the death of the last Apostle John. The Apostles were directly given these abilities by Jesus including Paul. The practice of giving these gifts via the holy spirit was known by the 'Laying on of the hands'. Basically the Apostle would place his hand on the disciple and provide a miraculous ability or gift.

All those receiving those gifts are long dead, as are the Apostles who were the only ones able to impart those gifts. Therefore the Pentecostal tradition of speaking in 'tongues' is clearly spurious. Usually their speaking in tongues consists of incoherent babbling. No ones ever been recorded of receiving a miraculous ability to speak fluently a language that was unknown to them. Thus the origin and source for this 'ability', if you can even call it that, is demonic in nature and not divine.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to offend anyone (not my style and why be rude?), but I had my..."suspicions" that much of what I was witnessing in her church was fabricated.

"Speaking in tongues" to me, yes, did sound like incoherent babbling, "Slain in the Spirit" looked just like people intentionally falling down.

But I try not to judge. They were all (for the most part) good people, and if that's how they want to worship, it isn't hurting me any. It was, yes, extremely different from anything I was used to (my parents are largely "High Holy Days Jews", but when my siblings and I were dragged to Shul, it is very quiet and reserved).
 
R

radind

New member
Truster said:
Working out your own salvation cannot be done until the person has been converted.
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I agree. Before conversion, the person has a decision to make. After conversion, each one is individually responsible for their beliefs and actions.
 
T

Truster

New member
radind said:
I agree. Before conversion, the person has a decision to make. After conversion, each one is individually responsible for their beliefs and actions.
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If your religion is based on a decision you have made. Then your religion is false.
 
S

SonOfCaleb

Active member
Feral Phoenician said:
I'm not trying to offend anyone (not my style and why be rude?), but I had my..."suspicions" that much of what I was witnessing in her church was fabricated.

"Speaking in tongues" to me, yes, did sound like incoherent babbling, "Slain in the Spirit" looked just like people intentionally falling down.

But I try not to judge. They were all (for the most part) good people, and if that's how they want to worship, it isn't hurting me any. It was, yes, extremely different from anything I was used to (my parents are largely "High Holy Days Jews", but when my siblings and I were dragged to Shul, it is very quiet and reserved).
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The Apostles provided the ability to speak in tongues -among many other abilities- so that Christianity could be spread by the early disciples into lands that didn't speak their native tongue either Greek, Aramaic of Hebrew. Remember Christianity was an evangelistic faith and this evangelism was key in the spread of Christianity into foreign lands. Thus the use of speaking in different languages or tongues had a practical application. It wasn't a mere conjurers trick just to titillate the minds of new converts/believers.

Whats the practical application of either pretending to be subsumed by the 'Holy Ghost' and falling down and convulsing, or talking a load of incoherent nonsense? What use is any of that to God or to anyone else for that matter? How does that help your faith or increase your spiritual wisdom? This type of deception has its origin with the Devil and his Demons all of whom are completely powerless to match any of Gods abilities.

Recall what Elijah did to the Baal worshipers at 1Kings 18:25-29 & 38-40:-

 
E·liʹjah now said to the prophets of Baʹal: “Choose one young bull and prepare it first, because you are the majority. Then call on the name of your god, but you must not put fire to it.” 26 So they took the young bull that was given to them, prepared it, and kept calling on the name of Baʹal from morning until noon, saying: “O Baʹal, answer us!” But there was no voice and no one answering. They kept limping around the altar that they had made. 27 About noon E·liʹjah began to mock them and say: “Call out at the top of your voice! After all, he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought or he has gone to relieve himself. Or maybe he is asleep and someone needs to wake him up!” 28 They were calling out at the top of their voice and cutting themselves with daggers and lances, according to their custom, until their blood gushed out all over them. 29 Noon was past and they continued in a frenzy until the time the evening grain offering is presented, but there was no voice and no one answering; no one was paying attention.

38 At that the fire of Jehovah fell from above and consumed the burnt offering, the pieces of wood, the stones, and the dust, and it licked up the water from the trench. 39 When all the people saw it, they immediately fell facedown and said: “Jehovah is the true God! Jehovah is the true God!” 40 Then E·liʹjah said to them: “Seize the prophets of Baʹal! Do not let a single one of them escape!” At once they seized them, and E·liʹjah brought them down to the stream of Kiʹshon and slaughtered them there.
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The Baal worshipers who essentially worshiped the Demons were completely powerless against Elijah and his God so much so that Elijah mocked them. Elijah put all of them to the sword and Satan and his Demons were proven to be useless when matched against the power of the the 'True God, Jehovah'. This accounts proves how utterly useless Satan and his Demons attempts are at imitating God.
 
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