I guess nobody wants to play this game. You'll get more response if you put it out in the open instead of in the Back Alley.
Bs'd
Shalom Friends!
Can anybody maybe tell me about who Isaiah 53 speaks?
Thanks in advance,
Eliyahu
I'm posting to let you know that I'm not ignoring your thread.
It's just that you already know who I believe it is and I already know who you believe it is.
Peace
Bs'd
The problem is that the other forum is for Christians only:
"Exclusively Christian Theology (17 Viewing)
This forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God."
Eliyahu
Bs'd
But you as a Christian have an obligation to point out to me why I am wrong, and why you are right, and make a good upright Christian out of me.
So go ahead and give me all your arguments and proofs as to why Isaiah 53 speaks about JC.
Eliyahu
Here you go.Bs'd
But you as a Christian have an obligation to point out to me why I am wrong, and why you are right, and make a good upright Christian out of me.
So go ahead and give me all your arguments and proofs as to why Isaiah 53 speaks about JC.
Eliyahu
I provided the link because you are listed as Jewish, so you would be more familiar with the modern Rabbinic teaching that Isaiah 53 is about Israel. What you may not have been familiar with is what the Jewish sages thought before Yeshua HaMoschiach came, because they changed the interpretation after He came.Bs'd
Thank you, at last something I can sink my teeth into.
The vast majority of that text is devoted to saying: "The rabbis say that Isaiah 53 speaks about the messiah!"
That's a kind of weird, that a Christian bases his religion on the opinion of the rabbis.
I provided the link because you are listed as Jewish, so you would be more familiar with the modern Rabbinic teaching that Isaiah 53 is about Israel. What you may not have been familiar with is what the Jewish sages thought before Yeshua HaMoschiach came, because they changed the interpretation after He came.
Can you provide a good explanation on why the Jewish sages changed the interpretation after Yeshua came?
Can you provide a good explanation on why Isaiah 53 is no longer read in the synogogue?
You can put it in the open Religion forum. Everyone is allowed to post there.
Some of Isaiah has been read in the synagogues. See years 1, 2, and 3.Isaiah 53, just like the vast majority of Isaiah, has never been read in the synagogue.
Eliyahu
Some of Isaiah has been read in the synagogues. See years 1, 2, and 3.
http://www.messianic.ws/midrash.htm
The entire Torah was every three years. The prophets followed the Torah portion. I guess I can't say the entirety of the prophets.Bs'd
And like I said: The vast majority was and is not.
Eliyahu
Bs'd
Shalom Friends!
Can anybody maybe tell me about who Isaiah 53 speaks?
Thanks in advance,
Eliyahu
Bs'd
Shalom Friends!
Can anybody maybe tell me about who Isaiah 53 speaks?
Thanks in advance,
Eliyahu
This is clearly a reference to either the righteous of Israel who were taken captive, or a generation unaffiliated with that generation whose sins caused them to be overtaken by the Babylonian army. And if that generation, or the righteous, will make an offering to G-d, they will be freed from their captivity.And they made his grave with the wicked
wand with a rich man in his death,
although xhe had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet yit was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;7
zwhen his soul makes8 an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
athe will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
This is a reiteration of the covenant made between YHWH and Israel, albeit in differing language than say, the Patriarch's covenant.Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see9 and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall bthe righteous one, my servant,
cmake many to be accounted righteous,
dand he shall bear their iniquities.
12 eTherefore I will divide him a portion with the many,10
fand he shall divide the spoil with the strong,11
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
gyet he bore the sin of many and makes intercession for the transgressors.
Growing up as a root from dry ground is a strong indicator of someone born outside of the promised land, one separated from the Glory of that which had been given to Israel.Who has believed what he has heard from us?1
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
iand like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
This points to someone who is unaffiliated with the transgressions which brought upon Israel their captivity, again pointing more towards those who were born after the sins were committed. It is only through their suffering, which is undeserved, and their affirmation of faith that Israel can be made whole again and returned to her home.Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
nsmitten by God, and afflicted.
5 oBut he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
pand with his wounds we are healed.
Deutero Isaiah (40 to 55) was written during the Babylonian Exile. This is very important to keep in mind.
Isaiah 53 speaks of Israel, but only the righteous of Israel who were carried off with the unrighteous, or that generation who was born into the Exile of Babylon.
This is clearly a reference to either the righteous of Israel who were taken captive, or a generation unaffiliated with that generation whose sins caused them to be overtaken by the Babylonian army. And if that generation, or the righteous, will make an offering to G-d, they will be freed from their captivity.
This is a reiteration of the covenant made between YHWH and Israel, albeit in differing language than say, the Patriarch's covenant.
In my opinion, the evidence points more toward the generation born within captivity, based on the first stanzas.
Growing up as a root from dry ground is a strong indicator of someone born outside of the promised land, one separated from the Glory of that which had been given to Israel.
This points to someone who is unaffiliated with the transgressions which brought upon Israel their captivity, again pointing more towards those who were born after the sins were committed. It is only through their suffering, which is undeserved, and their affirmation of faith that Israel can be made whole again and returned to her home.
I do not believe that this is a messianic passage, because it is missing both sides of the Judaic Messiah formula. There is no specific mention of a re-establishment of the faith (priest) nor a mention of a conquering individual or army (king). I do believe that this is a lamentation poem, but also one that points out the hope for Israel's restoration within that generation that is apart from the sin which led to her downfall.