Unsettler
Member
Doesn't it seem like Paul preached a Gentile dispensation, which did away with Jewish rituals?
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...although He doesn’t know how
- Thread starter Unsettler
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Doesn't it seem like Paul preached a Gentile dispensation, which did away with Jewish rituals?
I know Doug McBurney personally. Which is to say that I've met him several times and even spent the night at his house once when visiting Denver. He, Bob Enyart and I have agreed to meet 10,000 yrs from now to reminisce about our lives here on Earth and how miniscule our physical lives here will seem to us then.
The short answer is, "YES!"
There is definitely enough in scripture to make that claim and that's coming from a guy who has allowed himself to be baptized three different times! (I just cannot hardly believe I did that!)
Holy cow! You're off by about 39 years but that's actually pretty amazing, really. Most people don't come within a million miles of see this at all!
Look, there is one book that you absolutely MUST read! It's by no means the only book on the topic but is BY FAR the best. It absolutely establishes (biblically and rationally) the distinction between Israel and the Body of Christ. And I'm not kidding, it just completely nails it down tight as can be. It not only establishes that there is a difference but it establishes when the Body of Christ started, when Israel was cut off and goes into a very great amount of detail in regards to the effect these events have on whole list of doctrines, the most important of which is how and why we get saved and how and why we are to live the Christian life. He goes into end times issues like the rapture and all sorts of things. It's simply the best theology book that has been written in I don't know how long. It's right there with Pilgrim's Progress and Mere Christianity and, in my view, it surpasses them both.
The Plot by Bob Enyart
You can order it from the website but it's best, in my opinion, to call and order it. 1-800-836-9278
It isn't the cheapest book you'll ever buy, but you have to get it and read it. If you can't afford it, call and ask for Dominic and tell him that I said to charge you whatever you can afford and charge the rest of it to me. One way or the other, you need this book!
Clete
P.S. You wouldn't happen to live anywhere near Houston, Texas would you?
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Derf
Well-known member
As did the other disciples, eventually, though calling it a "Gentile dispensation" confuses the matter.
The biggest issue I have is that it divides believers into opposing camps for no biblical reason. ...And that it offers another gospel, which Paul said was to accurse those who did it.
I love that question! I'm not going to try to answer it but I just had to comment on it. I enjoy the way you think!
Why won't I try to answer it, you might be asking yourself....
Here's the problem. It's a detail. Baptism is one single doctrinal detail that the whole church has divided and split and fought over for two millennia. There's a whole list of such doctrines that Christians debate over and fight each other about.
Do we have to get water baptized?
Will Christians suffer through the Tribulation?
Can Christians lose their salvation?
Are Christian required to tithe?
Are good works required for salvation or is faith alone enough?
Should Christians keep the Sabbath?
Should Christians eat this or that food?
Should Christians.....fill in the blank.
If you get 50 Christians in the room and ask them to answer such questions, you might think you'd get fifty different combinations of answers but actually you likely get two major groups of people. There would be outliers but for the most part, the people who agree with each other on one of those questions also agree on most of the others. Baptism is something of an exception to that general rule. The beliefs about water baptism are sort of all over the place and is likely the single most divisive issue in the whole history of the church but still, the reason that you'd end up with basically two groups in your survey is because these issues are not the disperse, unrelated issues that they might seem to be.
Let's say you wanted to try to get a firm answer for each of those questions. A person starting on such a theological trek would likely start by picking one of them and read some books on the subject. Say they started with trying to answer, "Can Christians lose their salvation?". There's probably a hundred books that have been written about that topic. Some of them seek to prove that you can lose your salvation and the other seek to prove that you cannot. Each has a list of scripture passages that support their position (i.e. their proof texts). The proof texts for one set is the problem texts for the other and whichever book you pick up, regardless of which side of the debate it's arguing, will spend 80% or more of its time focused on its proof texts and the rest of the time explaining why the problem texts don't mean what they might seem to mean.
So you read four books on the topic of losing your salvation and you may or may not have a solid opinion about it when you're done, but then you move on to books about the tithing or the Tribulation or whatever and you find the same process in each of those books and after probably five years of study, you're probably not really any closer to having a firm answer than when you began and you certainly aren't on any firmer ground than is any other Christian regardless of whether they agree with your conclusions or not.
There is a better way!
All this study of doctrinal details is like scrutinizing individual pieces of a jigsaw puzzle without ever looking at the box top. People spends years studying a puzzle piece and say that it depicts a portion of a dog's ear and they spend years studying another piece and say that it is showing you a wrinkle in piece of bread and so on. Some try to figure out how one piece relates to all the other pieces but most don't go that far. Most people are content with just having a bunch of puzzle pieces and will wait to see the big picture when they're dead or when Christ returns.
Wouldn't it be better to at least look at the box top?
Wouldn't it be best to look at the box top FIRST?
The key to getting good answers to these divisive issues isn't by trying to find a bunch of proof texts for your favored answer but to see the big picture. If you get a good overview then the details become easy!
What if I told you that there was a doctrinal system based on that exact idea and that it so completely resolves all of those doctrinal details that it leave you with NO PROBLEM TEXTS! Indeed, all of what used to be proof texts are still proof texts AND all of what used to be problem texts are now also proof texts!
Sound impossible?
IT'S NOT!
The Plot by Bob Enyart
READ IT!
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You flat out do not have any idea what you're talking about.
Seriously. Ignorance (i.e. not stupidity) on parade.
Ignorance can be fixed!
If you're any sort of dispensationalists at all, you simply have to read Bob's book! What you say has "no biblical reason" and that "confuses the matter" is just exactly the opposite. The whole New Testament is the degree of biblical support for it and clearing up the confusion is precisely the result!
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Unsettler
Member
Thank you so much, that is really encouraging to hear!! So, I need the spoiler, which way was I off? Should I have said 31 AD or 109 AD?
I ordered online for PDF download. (I couldn't wait for shipping to dive in!)
I live near Tampa right off of I-75. If you're ever in the area or passing through, Iet's meet up! Otherwise, I hope to join you in your heavenly reunion with Bob and Doug.
I can't spoil the fun!
Just do me a favor and read the first four chapters FIRST! Don't skip ahead. After that, you can skip around if you want but whatever you do, read the first four chapters before reading anything else.
Same goes for you! If you're ever in the Houston area, I'll take you to eat some real Texas BBQ.
I'll tell you one thing. Finding like minded believers who are anywhere near you is tough! I mean really really hard.
Unsettler
Member
Bro, I love you. Seriously, it is too hard to find like-minded people.
Derf
Well-known member
I have read Bob's book. That's where I got the idea you have to read the Bible with one eye closed to come to these conclusions.
Oh man! It's been the theme of my life practically. Very lonely in that regard!
By the way, I just got a copy of the second edition of The Plot and so am reading it through again myself. We'll have to start a thread to discuss it and to address any questions that come up.
That is the most intellectually dishonest thing anyone has said on this website in six months (or more). Ignorance turns in a flash to stupidity.
I DO NOT believe that you've read his book to any large extent. If you did at all, you very likely skipped over the first four chapters and found some pet doctrine that you disagree with Bob on and dismissed the rest on that basis alone. I say this based on long experience with not only Bob's teaching but with those who claim to be familiar with it. In over two decades since Bob's book was written, I've yet to find a single exception.
If you happen to be the lone outliar then prove it. Refute even a single point that Bob makes in the first four chapters of The Plot.
You will not even try.
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Derf
Well-known member
I'll let him refute himself, though I dont remember if it was in ch 1-4. Do it here, or that thread you mentioned you would start?
Unsettler
Member
That's a great idea. I just finished chapter 1, and I am loving it!
Might be kind of hard... He passed away in September 2021.
Bob Enyart R.I.P.
Bob Enyart passed away last night. Thoughts and prayers are with his church and family.
theologyonline.com
If you're going to post contradictions between things that are NOT found in chapters 1-4, then your problem is that you either didn't read chapters 1-4, or you've completely missed something.
Go back and read through the chapters, AGAIN, if you have to.
I recommend starting a new thread.