ARCHIVE: Will You Be Celebrating Christmas?
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
:Brandon:
Okay, I have known for quite some time that Dec. 25th is not the actual date of His birth, but I have never realized that the Bible gives evidence as to when the date actually was. Could you please tell me what verses give this information, and when the Feast of the Tabernacles is.
FrankiE:
If you have a Companion Bible, look in Appendix 179, chart II.
Luke:1:5: There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Dates corresponding to the course of Abia - June 13-19
Lu:1:8: And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
Lu:1:9: According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.
Lu:1:13: But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Lu:1:23: And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
June 20
Lu:1:24: And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Lu:1:25: Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
November 24
Lu:1:35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Lu:1:36: And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
December 25
Lu:1:39: And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
Lu:1:40: And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
Lu:1:41: And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Lu:1:42: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Elisabeth is pregnant six months with John the Baptist, Mary has just conceived of the Holy Spirit. December 25.
Add nine months to December 25 and one gets September 29, Feast of Tabernacles.
(Study Daniel 9:24-27 to get the approximate year.)
Okay, I have known for quite some time that Dec. 25th is not the actual date of His birth, but I have never realized that the Bible gives evidence as to when the date actually was. Could you please tell me what verses give this information, and when the Feast of the Tabernacles is.
FrankiE:
If you have a Companion Bible, look in Appendix 179, chart II.
Luke:1:5: There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Dates corresponding to the course of Abia - June 13-19
Lu:1:8: And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
Lu:1:9: According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.
Lu:1:13: But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Lu:1:23: And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
June 20
Lu:1:24: And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Lu:1:25: Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
November 24
Lu:1:35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Lu:1:36: And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
December 25
Lu:1:39: And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
Lu:1:40: And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
Lu:1:41: And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Lu:1:42: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Elisabeth is pregnant six months with John the Baptist, Mary has just conceived of the Holy Spirit. December 25.
Add nine months to December 25 and one gets September 29, Feast of Tabernacles.
(Study Daniel 9:24-27 to get the approximate year.)
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Last thing I heard in the search for Jesus's birthday came from a special on something like the "Discovery Channel". They were trying to find the star the Magi followed. Somebody hit upon the idea that it might be an astrological phenomenon instead of an astronomical one. Persian astrology showed a super-king of sorts born in the province of Judaea on 17 April -6.
Lighthouse,
After all I wrote, it amazes me that you are still without a clue. It only proves to me that people of Evan-jelly-cal Christendumb are some of the laziest thinkers to walk the face of this planet. Even granite101, an open gainsayer, can see this. The only thing your brilliant analysis could come with is this?:
Well, it seems that you can be judged for your unobservance as well. So you just contradicted yourself, Jim.
:darwinsm:
And if you have a counterargument to my claim about theological sins, I'd like to hear it. It seems to me that those who aren't bothered by theological prohibitions (such as not water baptizing, not celebrating religious holidays, not submitting to angels) do not place a high value on truth. Proscribing against observing religious holidays was important enough to Paul for him to equate it with severing oneself from his Head, who is Christ. How much more severe could it be stated?
After all I wrote, it amazes me that you are still without a clue. It only proves to me that people of Evan-jelly-cal Christendumb are some of the laziest thinkers to walk the face of this planet. Even granite101, an open gainsayer, can see this. The only thing your brilliant analysis could come with is this?:
Well, it seems that you can be judged for your unobservance as well. So you just contradicted yourself, Jim.
:darwinsm:
And if you have a counterargument to my claim about theological sins, I'd like to hear it. It seems to me that those who aren't bothered by theological prohibitions (such as not water baptizing, not celebrating religious holidays, not submitting to angels) do not place a high value on truth. Proscribing against observing religious holidays was important enough to Paul for him to equate it with severing oneself from his Head, who is Christ. How much more severe could it be stated?
philosophizer
New member
How are we free from the Law if we are still under symbolic restrictions?
I do not think your argument is a compelling one.
I think you are making a jump in conclusion that just isn't there (unless of course there are people celebrating holidays because they think it is necessary for salvation... then I would agree with you).
Are we free from the law prohibiting murder? The answer is yes, and in precisely the same way. We are not slaves to the Law because we have been justified by the blood of Christ. No longer does the Law condemn us. We must still obey, but since we now obey out of the desire to please God and to honor Him, we are no longer slaves to it.
The difference here is that murder is morally wrong under ANY dispensation. Celebrating holidays isn't.
Jim... I apologize in advance... I can't remember if you think people in the Body can lose their salvation. Could you refresh my memory as to what you think?
Paul says not to observe times and seasons and holidays, and that doing so is the worship of angels, which he forbids. What could be more compelling than that?
That's like saying, "If people are participating in prostitution because they think it is necessary for salvation, then should abstain. As long as they see it as an opportunity to have fun and to share the gospel, then it's fine."
This just goes to show that people are so determined to hang on to their warm-and-fuzzy traditions that they'll say anything to justify them, despite explicit prohibitions from scripture. The same reasoning that prohibits water baptism (for those of you who at least agree on that point) governs the prohibition of religious holidays. It's not just because it belongs to Israel, but because it is an honoring of God's word and of the created order.
Paul says if you celebrate religious holidays, you are "not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God." (Col 2:19).
philosophizer
New member
I see a bit of a difference between murder and having a religious festival. God has never condoned murder. But He did require religious festivals of the Jews.
Murder has always been wrong across the board. It has always been evil in every circumstance. It is evil by the very nature of the deed.
But holidays cannot be comparitively evil because God did require them at one point. God would not have required an evil deed as part of His legislation. So this comparison seems off mark.
The Jews didn't follow the Law to please God and honor Him? Granted, we no longer need to chase down righteousness in the same way they did. We have it through Christ. And we have the Holy Spirit within us, filling us with His Truth. But I do think the Jews did want to please and honor God.
Amen. Precisely why we are not "forbidden" things that were once commanded.
If something has always been evil, we should have nothing to do with it. In fact we should hate it. But when something has been allowed and even required by God, it cannot be, in and of itself, evil. And that places it within the realm of our freedom of choice.
So are you saying that we are not free from interdispensational laws, but we are free to disobey dispensational ones?
Since salvation is secured by the blood of Christ only, not by works, not by faith, not by merit of any kind, the salvation of the elect is as sure as the efficacy of His blood. Salvation cannot be lost by the elect of any dispensation.
I know that's more detail than you asked for, but I thought I'd try to be thorough.
Of course. You agree right?
Circumsion was a requirement under the dispensation of circumcision yet circumcision "profits you nothing" under the dispensation of uncircumcision.
OK... thanks. :up:
Again... if people are observing religious holidays because they think its necessary for salvation I think your argument applies.
Otherwise... your argument is in error.
You continue...
Again Jim... prostitution is wrong under any dispensation. Prostitution wasn't a work of the law so your comparison falls flat.
We have a different view of God's Law and His assessment of righteousness. Breaking the Sabbath was a capital crime. It was worse than murder. Sabbath keeping was ceremonial only. It wasn't inherently righteous or inherently evil, but observing the ceremonies, symbols and rituals of the Sabbath was required by God. It wasn't optional or a matter of preference.
All disobedience of God is evil. Disobedience of things that are dispensationally specific are more evil and more offensive to God than things that are "wrong across the board."
It's not off the mark based on the reasons given by people for celebrating RamaHanuKwanzMass. "It's fun. It's an opportunity to share the gospel." Paul says don't do it. If you do, you are separating yourself from Christ.
Elect Jews did. Who said otherwise?
They had it through Christ, too. The regenerated Jew had the righteousness of Messiah. That is what Romans 4 says regarding Abraham. God gave him faith, and that faith testified of Abraham's righteous standing before God (i.e., he had the righteousness of Messiah).
I agree. So the point is, the elect of the Nations, the elect of Israel and the members of the Body of Christ all obey out of a desire to please and honor God. All three dispensations had specific laws they were instructed to obey. Prior to regeneration, one would be a slave to those specific laws. Post-regeneration, one becomes free from that slavery and obeys out of desire and faith.
The logic doesn't follow. We are forbidden all kinds of things, regardless of whether or not we're free from the law. Paul says his gospel will judge all men of this age (Ro 2:16), just as Noah's gospel judged all men of his age, and Moses' gospel judged all men of his age.
I assure you that Paul hated what the Judaizers were trying to do when they tried to impose Jewish food laws on the members of the Body of Christ at Antioch. So much so, that he got in Peter's face and publically rebuked him. People who teach and practice water baptism, observe religious rituals and symbols, celebrate religious holidays today, and teach their children and friends to do so are modern Judaizers.
Hilston asked: So are you saying that we are not free from interdispensational laws, but we are free to disobey dispensational ones?
I'm truly puzzled. Are you joking? Of course we're not free to disobey dispensational laws. Why would God give laws that He doesn't want us to obey? Why would Paul say that observing religious holidays is separating oneself from Christ is God didn't want us to obey? Keeping the Sabbath was a dispensational law. Disobedience was a capital crime.
That's true. Not only does it profit you nothing, but it is forbidden as a religious rite. Marriage as a religious rite is forbidden. Communion as a religious rite is forbidden. Celebrating religious holidays is forbidden. They profit you nothing. That is a prohibition. So is the warning that doing such things separates you from Christ.
I will be celebrating Christmas, as the birth of Messiah, the Word became flesh. If it was good enough for the angels and the shepherds to celebrate and rejoice, then I figure we can as well.
I am going to make a particular point of saying " Merry Christmas " to people this year. and if they respond or initiate with a "Happy holidays", I am going to ask them politely, which holiday or days, they are referring to? Many of them will be caught in a "store policy" quandry.
I am going to make a particular point of saying " Merry Christmas " to people this year. and if they respond or initiate with a "Happy holidays", I am going to ask them politely, which holiday or days, they are referring to?
Many of them will be caught in a "store policy" quandry.