Bible Study - the Book of Job

Tambora

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Job wants to speak with God.
He knows it is an unbalanced duo for mere man to be in the presence of perfection. But still, Job desires to meet his creator.

Job's mood swings between despair and hope.
One moment crying out, "God, please take this tribulation from me".
And the next moment whispering, "No matter what, your will be done".
Reminiscent of Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane.
Christ was in severe agony.
"Father, if it be possible, please take this from me. But not my will, but yours be done".

Job continues his dialogue:


Job 14 KJV
(1) Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
(2) He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Remember the old saying, "Life is tough, and then you die" ?
Now you know where it really originated!

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(3) And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
(4) Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

When a holy God looks upon man that are all sinners, what could be forthcoming but judgment?

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Next, Job compares the body of man to that of a tree.
The body grows old and withers and returns to the ground (hidden where none can see it).
A tree can wither and even be cut down, yet the root remains hidden in the ground, and the tree can sprout back to life with a little water.
It's the root that gives the tree life.

I find this perspective of Job to be very interesting, since in the NT we learn that Christ is the root that supports life to the tree with living water.
And if you are not in that tree supported by the root that has the living water, your life will not be renewed.

While Job lived long before Jesus was born, somehow he knew the concept of his life being renewed after he lay hidden in the ground for a while.

(5) Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
(6) Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.
(7) For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
(8) Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
(9) Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
(10) But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
(11) As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
(12) So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
(13) O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
(14) If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
(15) Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
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(16) For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
(17) My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
The poetic use of the Hebrew language is very visual.
In verse 17 this poetic language describes what God will do with all of Job's sin/transgression.
God will pack it away in a container and seal it up tight. Out of sight, no longer to be seen.
It's not just a covering up of Job's transgression, it is totally packing it away out of sight in a container
where it remains sealed up and cannot escape to ever bother you again.
Those babies are gone!!!!!!


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(18) And surely the mountain falling cometh to nought, and the rock is removed out of his place.
(19) The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.
Job describes that even the mighty mountains will eventually decay. And if those mighty rock hard mountains decay and erode away, what hope does the frail flesh of man have?

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(20) Thou prevailest for ever against him, and he passeth: thou changest his countenance, and sendest him away.
(21) His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.
(22) But his flesh upon him shall have pain, and his soul within him shall mourn.
Your children might become great men (as Job once was), or they might be humiliated and afflicted (as Job is now).
Once one is lying in the grave, you know nothing of what the living are doing.
But while you are living, you will experience some pain, and at times your soul will mourn.
Such is the consequence of living in a fallen world.



So grieve in times of despair, and dance in times of joy.






 

JosephR

New member
Hmmm, 10 pages in, eh?

Here's a bit to chew on:

Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither.

Obviously Job was not going to re-enter his mother's womb, right? So then why is his death described as a return to his mother's womb? Why didn't he say, Naked was I born and naked shall I die? Well, may I suggest that, to an author who knows about preconception existence, who is writing a book about suffering (but not for sin committed during this life since Job was characterized as : “There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”) this is a very poetic, secretive way of describing death, that is, our return to the state we were in before we were given life.

Now, a return to the state one was in before one was born or given life can mean only one of two things: either annihilation or preconception existence. Well, since I do not believe that Job's author thought that death meant annihilation, I am not really left with much choice. There is only one rational answer left... Now, what do you think about that? Pretty surprising eh!

Peace, Ted

Thats very interesting indeed.To me it screams of Jobs character that he submits to the will of God in recognizing that all of his Earthly possessions, even his very life mean nothing.Even the hair on his head.

I am sure we have all heard the term, "I came into this world alone and I am leaving alone"

I personally think this is what Job was saying.The cattle, the lands even the family and hair on his body is nothing in the sight of God.
It is very humbling. And I would think it pleased God very much.
On that note I do not claim to know the mind of God.

Very awesome study Tambora and thank you Nick M for leading me here.
 

Tambora

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chapter 15

chapter 15

Eliphaz chimes in again.


Job 15
(1) Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said,
(2) Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind?
"I thought you to be a wise man, Job; but it turns outs that you are just full of hot air!"


(3) Should he reason with unprofitable talk? or with speeches wherewith he can do no good?
(4) Yea, thou castest off fear, and restrainest prayer before God.
Just more belittling of Job by his so-called friend that came to "comfort" him in his time of woe.


(5) For thy mouth uttereth thine iniquity, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty.
(6) Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.
Job has maintained that he has done nothing wrong to deserve the pain and hardship that has fallen upon him.
We know from the first couple of chapters that it is because of Job's righteousness (not his sinfulness) that Satan wished to attack him.

Eliphaz doesn't want to believe that a righteous person can suffer.
He believes Job's suffering MUST be because of sin, not righteousness.
The very fact that Job maintains that he is righteous infuriates Eliphaz!
He decrees that Job's own words of his righteousness condemn him as a liar.

How many of us have had those same thoughts at times ---- that if things are going good, then God must be blessing us; but if things are going badly, then God must be punishing us?

Let this be a lesson to all. You cannot spot a righteous man by how good things are going in his life.

And let it show that all those prosperity preachers are frauds for teaching such.
They are not doing anything but helping Satan convince you that God is mad at you if things are not going well.
Don't believe it for a second!!!!!


Stick around. Eliphaz has more accusations against a righteous man.
And he uses some speech that is scriptural (but out of context) to show that Job must see himself as a sinner, not a righteous man.

To be continued .....
 

Tambora

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Eliphaz continues with his condemnation of Job.
The first time Eliphaz spoke, he sorta eased into his condemnation.
But now the fangs have emerged.

It is not his theology that is wrong, for it has merit .... in general.
But it is misdirected.

And even though he maintains that Job's misery has happened because of some wicked thing Job has done, he still cannot point to any specific thing Job had done wrong!
So, he accuses Job of doing some wicked thing on the sly, under the table, in secret. And he insists that Job must come clean and repent of that wicked deed he did.

But we know that Job had nothing to come clean about.

See if you can spot his correct theology about the common overall nature of man, although misdirected toward Job's situation.


Job 15
(7) Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?
(8) Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?
(9) What knowest thou, that we know not? what understandest thou, which is not in us?
Eliphaz points out that Job is not wiser than his friends. They all know the theology. They have the same wisdom in that regard. Job does not have any "secret" knowledge that they do not have.


(10) With us are both the grayheaded and very aged men, much elder than thy father.
This could be an indication that Job's friends are much older than he.


(11) Are the consolations of God small with thee? is there any secret thing with thee?
(12) Why doth thine heart carry thee away? and what do thy eyes wink at,
(13) That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth?
(14) What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
(15) Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
(16) How much more abominable and filthy is man, which drinketh iniquity like water?
Theologically correct, in general.
If Job's misery were because of the common fallen nature of man, then even Eliphaz would be guilty. But Eliphaz does not declare himself guilty.
No, instead, he is accusing Job of some phantom wicked deed he has committed (even thought he can't say what it is).


(17) I will shew thee, hear me; and that which I have seen I will declare;
(18) Which wise men have told from their fathers, and have not hid it:
(19) Unto whom alone the earth was given, and no stranger passed among them.
(20) The wicked man travaileth with pain all his days, and the number of years is hidden to the oppressor.
(21) A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him.
(22) He believeth not that he shall return out of darkness, and he is waited for of the sword.
(23) He wandereth abroad for bread, saying, Where is it? he knoweth that the day of darkness is ready at his hand.
(24) Trouble and anguish shall make him afraid; they shall prevail against him, as a king ready to the battle.
(25) For he stretcheth out his hand against God, and strengtheneth himself against the Almighty.
(26) He runneth upon him, even on his neck, upon the thick bosses of his bucklers:
(27) Because he covereth his face with his fatness, and maketh collops of fat on his flanks.
(28) And he dwelleth in desolate cities, and in houses which no man inhabiteth, which are ready to become heaps.
(29) He shall not be rich, neither shall his substance continue, neither shall he prolong the perfection thereof upon the earth.
(30) He shall not depart out of darkness; the flame shall dry up his branches, and by the breath of his mouth shall he go away.
(31) Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence.
(32) It shall be accomplished before his time, and his branch shall not be green.
(33) He shall shake off his unripe grape as the vine, and shall cast off his flower as the olive.
(34) For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
(35) They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit.

Same stuff over and over again, but no specific wicked deed of Job.
His demeanor is becoming nasty toward Job, for he thinks that Job has done something wicked and refuses to admit it.
The gist of Eliphaz's argument is that Job is being punished, and God only punishes for wickedness, therefore Job must have done something wicked.

The phrase "innocent until proven guilty" seems to be a foreign concept to Eliphaz.
 

Tambora

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chapter 16

chapter 16

Job replies ....

Job 16
(1) Then Job answered and said,
(2) I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all.
(3) Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest?

As Job wishes his suffering would end, so also he wishes his friend's words would end. For their words were only adding to his grief.





(4) I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you.
(5) But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.
Job has lost his home, his children, his income, and his health.

How should "friends" respond?

Did his "friends" offer to take Job into their home, to comfort and take care of him?
No. They left him on the outskirts of town where they dump their trash.
And they only come to him to accuse him of some imaginary sin.

Job has no recourse.
He's too poor and too sick to help himself.






(6) Though I speak, my grief is not asswaged: and though I forbear, what am I eased?
Whether he complains or silently accepts his situation, his pain and grief are still present.




Now, Job describes his suffering.

(7) But now he hath made me weary: thou hast made desolate all my company.
(8) And thou hast filled me with wrinkles, which is a witness against me: and my leanness rising up in me beareth witness to my face.
(9) He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.
(10) They have gaped upon me with their mouth; they have smitten me upon the cheek reproachfully; they have gathered themselves together against me.
(11) God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked.
(12) I was at ease, but he hath broken me asunder: he hath also taken me by my neck, and shaken me to pieces, and set me up for his mark.
(13) His archers compass me round about, he cleaveth my reins asunder, and doth not spare; he poureth out my gall upon the ground.
(14) He breaketh me with breach upon breach, he runneth upon me like a giant.
(15) I have sewed sackcloth upon my skin, and defiled my horn in the dust.
(16) My face is foul with weeping, and on my eyelids is the shadow of death;
(17) Not for any injustice in mine hands: also my prayer is pure.
He feels persecuted, his flesh torn to shreds, broken, slapped, and mocked.
And he endures it, knowing he is innocent of the crimes his friends enemies accuse him of.

Sound familiar? (Think of Christ on trial.)






(18) O earth, cover not thou my blood, and let my cry have no place.
(19) Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.
(20) My friends scorn me: but mine eye poureth out tears unto God.
What is Job's only comfort and hope?
God's witness.
While man reviles him, God is his witness that his accusers are wrong about him.

Friends should help each other.
But there is a limit to what friends can do. And yes, even your friends can assume things about you that are not true.
God is unlimited and He knows truth.

God is your true fortress.
Not your friends, not your family, not the government, not your wealth, not your health, etc.








(21) O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!
Job's hope is that there was someone to mediate between man and God. An advocate.

Job's hope would be answered in the person of Jesus Christ.







(22) When a few years are come, then I shall go the way whence I shall not return.
Job knows that man's days on earth are numbered. And he shall not return to the same condition as he now endures.
In this life there is tribulation, even for those who trust in the Lord.
But for those that trust in the Lord, the next life will be free of tribulation.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither.

Obviously Job was not going to re-enter his mother's womb, right? So then why is his death described as a return to his mother's womb?

It's a play on words. Job came forth naked from his mother's womb and naked he would return to mother earth from whom the elements of every human comes.

It's poetic imagery.
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
It's a play on words. Job came forth naked from his mother's womb and naked he would return to mother earth from whom the elements of every human comes.

It's poetic imagery.

Of course many say that - just like they say the resurrection is 'imagery' and any other doctrine they read that they can't make sense of it it tells the truth...

Peace, Ted
 

Tambora

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During this second round of debate with his 3 so-called friends, Job continues to be in severe physical and emotional pain.
His 3 friends attempt to make sense of why this is happening to him.
They keep insisting that suffering comes to the wicked.
While many scriptures can be found to show this is doctrinally correct; what they keep failing to do is expose any wickedness Job has done.
For they have not witnessed any wickedness Job has done, but they accuse him of wickedness anyway.

Long story short, while being doctrinally literate men, they are bearing false witness against Job based on doctrine, and not based on what has actually happened.
Sound familiar?
The Pharisees did the same to Christ.
They tried to accuse him doctrinally, but had not witnessed a darn thing Christ had actually done wrong!


What Job's "friends" did not do, and what they should have done, was comfort a grieving soul.
They could not change what was happening to Job. But they could have given him some comfort that was obvious he needed at the time.


A note for those reading along:
We've already gone through chapter after chapter of all of them (Job included) asking "Why?"
There is plenty to learn from this story of old.
But if you are reading along in this study hoping that the answer of "Why?" will finally be answered; you will be in for a disappointment.
For even when God shows up in the end, He never tells Job "Why?" this has all happened to him.

And perhaps that in itself is a lesson to learn.
Stop dwelling on "Why?", and deal with the situation at hand the best you can.
 

Tambora

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Continuing with some thoughts on points to ponder while studying Job's situation.

Job's friends have reduced the situation to only two conclusions: either God was justly punishing Job or God was unjustly punishing Job.
Knowing that God is absolutely just, they conclude that it had to be Job that must have done something to deserve what was happening to him.

The friends (and even Job) were oblivious to the fact that there was a another conclusion that was hidden from them ---- Satan was the one inflicting pain and suffering upon Job, and it wasn't because of some wicked thing Job had done.

God's love for Job did not change because of Job's change of position in life.
God is no respecter of persons (rich/poor, healthy/unhealthy, children/childless).
Job's position in life changed from having wealth, health, and children; to having no wealth, no health, and no children.
God's love for Job did not change.

And let's not forget, Job's love for God did not change either.

Moral of the story ---- wealth, health, and children are NOT the criteria of whether God loves you or not.

Do not let the world, or Satan, convince you otherwise. It's a lie.
 

Lazy afternoon

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During this second round of debate with his 3 so-called friends, Job continues to be in severe physical and emotional pain.
His 3 friends attempt to make sense of why this is happening to him.
They keep insisting that suffering comes to the wicked.
While many scriptures can be found to show this is doctrinally correct; what they keep failing to do is expose any wickedness Job has done.
For they have not witnessed any wickedness Job has done, but they accuse him of wickedness anyway.

Long story short, while being doctrinally literate men, they are bearing false witness against Job based on doctrine, and not based on what has actually happened.
Sound familiar?
The Pharisees did the same to Christ.
They tried to accuse him doctrinally, but had not witnessed a darn thing Christ had actually done wrong!


What Job's "friends" did not do, and what they should have done, was comfort a grieving soul.
They could not change what was happening to Job. But they could have given him some comfort that was obvious he needed at the time.


A note for those reading along:
We've already gone through chapter after chapter of all of them (Job included) asking "Why?"
There is plenty to learn from this story of old.
But if you are reading along in this study hoping that the answer of "Why?" will finally be answered; you will be in for a disappointment.
For even when God shows up in the end, He never tells Job "Why?" this has all happened to him.

And perhaps that in itself is a lesson to learn.
Stop dwelling on "Why?", and deal with the situation at hand the best you can.


The "why" is knowable.


LA
 

Lazy afternoon

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Continuing with some thoughts on points to ponder while studying Job's situation.

Job's friends have reduced the situation to only two conclusions: either God was justly punishing Job or God was unjustly punishing Job.
Knowing that God is absolutely just, they conclude that it had to be Job that must have done something to deserve what was happening to him.

The friends (and even Job) were oblivious to the fact that there was a another conclusion that was hidden from them ---- Satan was the one inflicting pain and suffering upon Job, and it wasn't because of some wicked thing Job had done.

God's love for Job did not change because of Job's change of position in life.
God is no respecter of persons (rich/poor, healthy/unhealthy, children/childless).
Job's position in life changed from having wealth, health, and children; to having no wealth, no health, and no children.
God's love for Job did not change.

And let's not forget, Job's love for God did not change either.

Moral of the story ---- wealth, health, and children are NOT the criteria of whether God loves you or not.

Do not let the world, or Satan, convince you otherwise. It's a lie.

All sufferings are not punishments.

God allowed satan to do what he did, and God was right behind it all.

Job lost his dependency upon his flesh, which those sons before him had cultivated till their complete apostasy.

God tore Jobs flesh off. Heb.ch 12.

Elihu (not a friend and not restored ) was the voice of believers uncrucified flesh.

God rebuked Job--

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
Job 38:2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.
Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Job 38:5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

LA
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
All sufferings are not punishments.

God allowed satan to do what he did, and God was right behind it all.

Job lost his dependency upon his flesh, which those sons before him had cultivated till their complete apostasy.

God tore Jobs flesh off. Heb.ch 12.

Elihu (not a friend and not restored ) was the voice of believers uncrucified flesh.

God rebuked Job--

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
Job 38:2 "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.
Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Job 38:5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

LA

Elihu was Christ in this.

He stood in Gods stead.

He ascribed righteousness to God.

He did not need Job to offer a sacrifice for him, or for Job to pray for him.

He was actually Jobs best friend, he didnt pull any punches or falsely accuse him.

What do you mean by, he was the voice of a believers uncrucified flesh?
 

Lazy afternoon

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Elihu was Christ in this.

He stood in Gods stead.

He ascribed righteousness to God.

He did not need Job to offer a sacrifice for him, or for Job to pray for him.

He was actually Jobs best friend, he didnt pull any punches or falsely accuse him.

What do you mean by, he was the voice of a believers uncrucified flesh?

Because of what Elihu said---

Job 32:2 Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God.
Job 32:3 Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
Job 32:4 Now because they were years older than he, Elihu had waited to speak to Job.
Job 32:5 When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, his wrath was aroused.
Job 32:6 So Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, answered and said: "I am young in years, and you are very old; Therefore I was afraid, And dared not declare my opinion to you.

Job 32:7 I said, 'Age should speak, And multitude of years should teach wisdom.'
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding.
Job 32:9 Great men are not always wise, Nor do the aged always understand justice.
Job 32:10 "Therefore I say, 'Listen to me, I also will declare my opinion.'
Job 32:11 Indeed I waited for your words, I listened to your reasonings, while you searched out what to say.
Job 32:12 I paid close attention to you; And surely not one of you convinced Job, Or answered his words—
Job 32:13 Lest you say, 'We have found wisdom'; God will vanquish him, not man.
Job 32:14 Now he has not directed his words against me; So I will not answer him with your words.
Job 32:15 "They are dismayed and answer no more; Words escape them.
Job 32:16 And I have waited, because they did not speak, Because they stood still and answered no more.
Job 32:17 I also will answer my part, I too will declare my opinion.
Job 32:18 For I am full of words; The spirit within me compels me.
Job 32:19 Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent; It is ready to burst like new wineskins.
Job 32:20 I will speak, that I may find relief; I must open my lips and answer.
Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone; Nor let me flatter any man.
Job 32:22 For I do not know how to flatter, Else my Maker would soon take me away.


All false prophets speak like Elihu did, and is not the way of a true prophet.

At least He admitted it was his own opinion.

You can try to persuade me.

LA
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Because of what Elihu said---


All false prophets speak like Elihu did, and is not the way of a true prophet.

At least He admitted it was his own opinion.

You can try to persuade me.

LA

Really.......

35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom .

36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.

37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.




1 Elihu spake moreover, and said ,

2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst , My righteousness is more than God's?

3 For thou saidst , What advantage will it be unto thee? and, What profit shall I have, if I be cleansed from my sin?

4 I will answer thee, and thy companions with thee.



1 Elihu also proceeded , and said ,

2 Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.

3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker .

4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.


Now God.........

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said ,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.



Elihu was the only one who God did not correct.

As a matter of fact, God confirmed Elihus speech.
 
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