Biden: To hell with God and the Church. I'm taking communion.

[annabenedetti]

And there were no opportunities or access other than altar servers?

You poor thing. You try so hard...

The Church was a very male institution. Still is, but not nearly so much as before Vatican II. Lectors were men. Acolytes and altar servers were boys and young men. Boys were introduced into altar serving at a very young age. Girls weren't in the sacristy, boys and young men were. Camping trips were for the boys. And so on.

 

[ok doser]

You poor thing. You try so hard...

You poor thing

You want it so badly

The Church was a very male institution. Still is, but not nearly so much as before Vatican II. Lectors were men. Acolytes and altar servers were boys and young men. Boys were introduced into altar serving at a very young age. Girls weren't in the sacristy, boys and young men were. Camping trips were for the boys. And so on.

Which is exactly why it was so appealing to homos.

 

[ok doser]

The residential school system in Canada and elsewhere, offered opportunities for non-homosexuals to molest children of both genders

 

[annabenedetti]

You poor thing

You want it so badly



Which is exactly why it was so appealing to homos.

Actually I'm just putting facts out there in the face of your childish antics. You don't really know, you don't really care, it's just a game for you. I understand that. But someone else might be interested, and so I tolerate you.

 

[Idolater]

Would you stop with the "child rape or serial killing." You're muddying the water. Stick with child rape, child molestation, whatever legal term you want to use and stop adding serial killers in with it.

The child rapists are the 'worst of the worst'. And they are exceptionally---and even incredibly---dishonest. On both marks, the only comparable people to them are serial killers. (Who are also rapists, btw icymi.)

I don't think I'm muddying the water, I'm just hammering home a point that as far as I'm concerned isn't as widely grasped or admitted as would have been ideal in times past. They are unbelievably dangerous. When one of them is discovered, and imprisoned, he is usually at risk of being murdered by other inmates right away, because of just how dangerous he is; something that other violent criminals especially know.

 

[Idolater]

... the current pope is pro-homo....

Nope.

 

[Idolater]

And don't forget the celibacy requirement. That required ALL priests to hid their sexual behavior, even the heterosexual ones.

They're not supposed to have 'sexual behavior'. But you keep thinking that the incredibly dangerous violent criminal child rapists are anything like people who value honesty, honor, integrity even a little bit. All child rapists value is raping kids, and they'll do anything up to and including murder to keep on doing it.

Unlike, of course, Peter... who was married.

But like Paul who wasn't, and who lauded celibacy.

 

[Lon]

Yeah, but what do those Catholics think about an unbelieving Catholic who nonetheless dutifully comes to Mass every week? At worst it's someone who wants to believe, and who thinks the best chance they have at that, is to come to Mass.

He's already said that he's personally opposed to abortion, and that is consistent with Catholicism. Is there another reason to be opposed to abortion, besides religious faith, in this day and age?

That it is literally killing a life? Yeah, Rusha on here doesn't commit to Christianity, but she believes abortion is murder and wrong. You don't have to be a Christian to know ending a life is wrong is wrong is wrong.

In order to do anything, they have to get elected.

True enough.

Being opposed to abortion might mean that they lose.

Yet Biden has signed pro-abortion bills.

You might say, "That's the way the cookie crumbles," but there is a very hard line between someone being in or out of public office. Out, and you can't do a darn thing.

Like what?

Anything, literally. "This country was founded upon Christian principles" "I cannot mandate laws that support Christian values, but I personally hold them very strongly and wish abortion never happened, ever!" It'd be really easy for a democrat to say that. Reagan though supporting abortion, said "when it comes to life and death, the law should always favor life." Reagan's presidential platform was to eliminate all abortions except those needed within the context of life. He thought abortion should only happen when it endangered a mother. He said:
"The real question for him (any abortion doctor) and for all of us is whether than tiny human life has a God-given right to be protected by the
law–the same right we have.”

Reagan is responsible for many Protestants and Catholics moving from a Democrat platform, to a Republican one, simply based on his expressed values. ANY president that speaks from his heart regarding issues of life (and so poignantly) will win the allegiance of a nation of Christians (including Catholics).

I think that what we're dealing with here in President Biden, is a Christian. A Christian president. I have my doubts about President Trump and Obama, even maybe about President Bush the junior, about President Clinton---I think President Bush the senior was bona fide, but you would have to go all the way back to President Carter before we could all probably confidently say that he was a true Christian president.

Reagan had issues, but 'issues' do not undo Christianity. He spoke most often as if he held Christian values and was more bold than any that I can recollect regarding Christian expressions.

Of course we don't know anyone's heart.

We do when they vote and pass bills unless they make a very very strong statement of why they'd pass something they know is against the heart of God. It ever and only came down to one thing in the Christian vote: Lives. Most Christians knew beyond doubt that votes for Republican were costing them money, but they put their money literally where their mouth was, took huge financial hits, and supported Republicans for only their stance, openly, against abortion. It literally was a matter of conscience. Any more those lines are not contrasted at all. Most republican politicians are indifferent to those laws. Today, Republican is more about a decrease in taxation and government spending. In such a scheme, it has favored the rich, but underneath Presidential elections has been a steady secularization and removal of Christianity and Christian influence as if such was a bad thing. These United States necessarily must and mark my words (I think prophetically though I'm not a prophet) will become divided. I can't see any other way around it. One side ADAMANTLY wants no Christianity and the Other insists it is necessary for any republic to actually work. I see another civil war of some sort on the horizon, and the sparks heralding it already set off.

 

[Idolater]

We really don't know that, even after all these years.

Are there still victims who are still bamboozled and guilted and shamed (groomed) into not saying anything, even after all this broke? Probably. But I rather doubt that there are 100 times more, or even 10 times more victims, and 100 or 10 times more child rapists who haven't been discovered yet. I could be wrong but I find that possibility exceedingly unlikely. I seriously doubt there are double, or 50% more to be discovered. 10-25% more? That seems not improbable, but even that seems high. This crisis if nothing else has really shone a bright and piercing light on this now former lion's den of child rape. The safe harbor these violent criminals used to find in certain dioceses and certain schools and parishes as the ordained, has basically all dried up now.

He's culpable, to the degree he could have taken massive action and didn't.

Trained policemen would have sniffed out what was going on in a snap. Trained policemen who made the decisions that the innocent bishops made, would have been culpable for sure. But pastors aren't policemen, and this was all before there was a general realization that, the child rapists were real, they were really raping children, and their ability to be redeemed, is unreal.

But I'm the one who's been telling you that you have to differentiate between the culpability and the actual crime.

Being an accessory is an actual crime though, and that's what I'm saying did not happen. And so if there is no crime, then there is no culpability either, the two go together.

You want to call them all violent rapists - until they get to be bishop or pope, I guess.

That's not a charitable interpretation of what I've written.

Most of it wasn't Dreher, it was the priest's commentary

That's not how I read it. I'm unfortunately familiar with his thinking, and can spot it a mile away. After he block quoted his priest friend's letter, he just went off on his typical tangent for the rest of the piece. That's how I read it.

, which gives some insight, agree or not, into clerical thinking. I thought you might be interested but no worries if you're not.

I appreciate it; I don't blame you for my distaste of Dreher's ideas.

I've been following this since 2002, more closely in the early aughts then now, but I still remember a lot. Did you ever read the John Jay Report?

Looks good.

 

[Right Divider]

They're not supposed to have 'sexual behavior'.

And YET a very large percentage do (the vast majority, heterosexual). So much for the "rules" of the "priesthood" (a word used not a SINGLE time in ALL of Paul's epistles).

But you keep thinking that the incredibly dangerous violent criminal child rapists are anything like people who value honesty, honor, integrity even a little bit.

Your idea of what I think is ridiculously and almost hilariously wrong.

All child rapists value is raping kids, and they'll do anything up to and including murder to keep on doing it.

But the RCC will aid them in their work by MOVING THEM AROUND AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN... So that many are able to rape and sexually assault DOZENS of CHILDREN.

But like Paul who wasn't, and who lauded celibacy.

That is a LIE. Here is what Paul actually said:

1Ti 3:2 KJV A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:12 KJV Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Tit 1:6-7 KJV If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. (7) For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Note that the books to Timothy and Titus were Paul's LATER writings.

 

[annabenedetti]

Are there still victims who are still bamboozled and guilted and shamed (groomed) into not saying anything, even after all this broke? Probably. But I rather doubt that there are 100 times more, or even 10 times more victims, and 100 or 10 times more child rapists who haven't been discovered yet. I could be wrong but I find that possibility exceedingly unlikely. I seriously doubt there are double, or 50% more to be discovered. 10-25% more? That seems not improbable, but even that seems high. This crisis if nothing else has really shone a bright and piercing light on this now former lion's den of child rape. The safe harbor these violent criminals used to find in certain dioceses and certain schools and parishes as the ordained, has basically all dried up now.

Most of the allegations were against priests born in the 1930s and ordained in the 1960s, so many of them are elderly or dead. However:

New abuse allegations have not disappeared. In the last three years, 22 allegations of abuse occurring during 2015-2017 have been made. This is an average of about seven per year nationwide in the church. That is far too many. Nothing is acceptable other than zero.

That link goes to an article with a lot of information you may find helpful. But it does reinforce what I've been saying:

What is new in the Pennsylvania grand jury report is a level of detail that previous investigations have not often included. The authors report on a “playbook” that church leaders allegedly used to handle allegations of clergy sex abuse in the state prior to 2002. “It seemed as if there was a script. Through the end of the 20th century, the dioceses developed consistent strategies for hiding child sex abuse” (Page 297). This strategy included the use of euphemisms in documentation that minimized abuse as conduct that was “inappropriate” or related to “boundary issues.” The dioceses’ investigations appeared to be deficient or biased, according to the grand jury. Many accused priests were sent for treatment in a clinical approach to the abuse rather than what should have occurred—criminal reporting. Once these treatments were considered complete, abusers were often returned to ministry in new assignments. The allegations were rarely, if ever, disclosed publicly. Victims rarely received the care they needed, let alone justice. The grand jury concludes, “The repeating pattern of the bishops’ behavior left us with no doubt that, even decades ago, the church understood that the problem was prevalent” (Page 300). Further, “The bishops weren’t just aware of what was going on; they were immersed in it. And they went to great lengths to keep it secret. The secrecy helped spread the disease” (Page 300).

I appreciate it; I don't blame you for my distaste of Dreher's ideas.

Oh, that's okay. It was only the priest's commentary I wanted to pass on anyway, as a view into clericalism.

 

[chrysostom]

The child rapists

This is misleading. When an adult male molests a minor male, it is a homosexual problem.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Nope.

Denying reality isn't healthy, Idolater.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/08/europe/vatican-pope-family/index.html

Vatican Invests $1.1 Million in Steamy Elton John Biopic

The Vatican invested upwards of a million dollars to back the Rocketman film about singer Elton John with a graphic scene of gay sex.

www.breitbart.com

Franklin Graham: Pope trying to 'normalize homosexuality' | WND | by WND Staff

Franklin Graham, the influential evangelical Christian leader of the worldwide Samaritan's Purse ministry, says the promotion by Pope Francis regarding homosexuality is "unthinkable in light of the Word of God."

www.wnd.com

Pope Francis named ‘Person of the Year’ by leading gay rights

The religious leader is the December coverstar of The Advocate magazine, on which he appears with a photoshopped tattoo on his cheek

www.independent.co.uk

More at https://kgov.com/pope

He's been pro-homo at least since 1964, when his first assignment to the teenage boys, students in his class in Argentina, was to read THIS book, written by an openly homosexual author.

 

[JudgeRightly]

They're not supposed to have 'sexual behavior'.

Which is against what scripture tells us.

But you keep thinking that the incredibly dangerous violent criminal child rapists are anything like people who value honesty, honor, integrity even a little bit.

I can almost guarantee you that, had the homo priests who have molested little boys and girls whom they had authority over had a wife to begin with, they likely would never have gone down the path of molesting children.

All child rapists value is raping kids, and they'll do anything up to and including murder to keep on doing it.

And thus they should be put to death upon being convicted of their crimes.

But like Paul who wasn't, and who lauded celibacy.

Paul's words:

My defense to those who examine me is this: Do we have no right to eat and drink?Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? - 1 Corinthians 9:3-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians9:3-5&version=NKJV

Not to mention the entirety of chapter 7...

 

[JudgeRightly]

This is misleading. When an adult male molests a minor male, it is a homosexual problem.

What if an adult male molests a minor female?

Not homosexual then, is it?

 

[ok doser]

What if an adult male molests a minor female?

Not homosexual then, is it?

Heterosexuals (aka normal people) recognize that it is wrong to molest children.

Homosexuals (aka perverts) believe that molesting children should be legal and encouraged

 

[annabenedetti]

He's been pro-homo at least since 1964, when his first assignment to the teenage boys, students in his class in Argentina, was to read THIS book, written by an openly homosexual author.

What's "THIS book?"

Your link goes to Google books which doesn't allow me to preview the page, but I have the Mark K. Shriver book it references, and can read the full pages, and nowhere do I see a mention of a particular book assigned by then-Fr. Bergoglio written by García Lorca, one of Spain's greatest literary figures who was assassinated by pro-Franco forces. Assigned readings, yes, but what's "THIS book" exactly? Fr. Bergoglio taught Spanish literature in a Spanish-speaking country going through its own civil struggles, and... what? What's your actual insinuation here?

Should no American student read any literature by Truman Capote? Oscar Wilde? Tennessee Williams? James Baldwin?

 

[annabenedetti]

Heterosexuals (aka normal people) recognize that it is wrong to molest children.

Homosexuals (aka perverts) believe that molesting children should be legal and encouraged

You said you were "very sciencey." Apparently not.

 

[Idolater]

This is misleading. When an adult male molests a minor male, it is a homosexual problem.

It's violent crime.

 

[Idolater]

Denying reality isn't healthy, Idolater.

Glass houses.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/08/europe/vatican-pope-family/index.html

Vatican Invests $1.1 Million in Steamy Elton John Biopic

The Vatican invested upwards of a million dollars to back the Rocketman film about singer Elton John with a graphic scene of gay sex.

www.breitbart.com

Franklin Graham: Pope trying to 'normalize homosexuality' | WND | by WND Staff

Franklin Graham, the influential evangelical Christian leader of the worldwide Samaritan's Purse ministry, says the promotion by Pope Francis regarding homosexuality is "unthinkable in light of the Word of God."

www.wnd.com

Pope Francis named ‘Person of the Year’ by leading gay rights

The religious leader is the December coverstar of The Advocate magazine, on which he appears with a photoshopped tattoo on his cheek

www.independent.co.uk

More at https://kgov.com/pope

He's been pro-homo at least since 1964, when his first assignment to the teenage boys, students in his class in Argentina, was to read THIS book, written by an openly homosexual author.

He's not and neither is Catholicism "pro" homo-genital relations.