Biden: To hell with God and the Church. I'm taking communion.

[ok doser]

Still not there.

That's fine. Unlike @Lon, I never believe that you and I have common ground anymore. Not since you've decided to embrace evil.

 

[Idolater]

I was referring to him having been on my radar for the last 45 years.

Or is a venal, career politician who knows the value of the optics.

What optics has him looking good, coming to Mass every week basically without fail, to Christ's Church, that openly and to this culture, flagrantly, condemns LGBTQAI+(etc.) "love" as grave matter and even calls it 'disordered'? It's not just that the Church won't marry homo-genital couples---the Church doesn't even bless them. What optics?

In contrast, JFK hardly ever came to Mass, afaik.

 

[ok doser]

What optics has him looking good, coming to Mass every week basically without fail, to Christ's Church, that openly and to this culture, flagrantly, condemns LGBTQAI+(etc.) "love" as grave matter and even calls it 'disordered'? It's not just that the Church won't marry homo-genital couples---the Church doesn't even bless them. What optics?

The optics that counted during his long career as a Senator from Delaware.

Today?

We'll see him eaten by his own before long.

 

[ok doser]

JFK hardly ever came to Mass, afaik.

I believe he did

 

[Idolater]

I believe he did

I'd heard otherwise, but I'm curious now so I'll look into it.

 

[annabenedetti]

That's fine. Unlike @Lon, I never believe that you and I have common ground anymore. Not since you've decided to embrace evil.

Oh, there's no common ground I'd be willing to stand on with you. Since you were reading along with that conversation, whispering in his ear, you know I'm well aware I'm dealing with your unvarnished hate and it doesn't faze me. Nor the fact that you cannot maintain a good faith discussion with me. No matter. You came to the end of the line of your attempt at comparison here so fell back to your usual, but maybe the info I posted for you earlier will add to a conversation with someone else.

 

[Lon]

Sure you have. You've heard that he attends Mass weekly, and has for very many years basically without exception. He goes to Mass even when he leaves the country.

In this day and age, there is simply no other good explanation for a Catholic coming to Mass weekly unless he really believes in Jesus Christ.

There is an expectation that values follow faith. For us Protestants, you can argue a bit, sure, but this discussion takes place within Catholic walls and there are certainly conservative Catholics that do and have questioned his faith because of a lot of adverse policies passed.

 

[Lon]

That's fine. Unlike @Lon, I never believe that you and I have common ground anymore. Not since you've decided to embrace evil.

Thanks for inclusion. While I know I'm ignored, I yet know contributions to threads have an impact as we participate in them in good faith of our values, even when they are not shared. My goal is not liberal, but to bring all people's to Christ. Bantering seldom accomplishes that objective so I'm ever trying to be more irenic. I want none in hell, if I can do anything at all about it.

 

[ok doser]

There is an expectation that values follow faith.

Values follow faith and actions follow values

... a lot of adverse policies passed.

Walking it backwards:
- adverse policies flow from adverse values
- adverse values flow from adverse faith

bad policies, bad values, bad faith

By their fruits ye shall know them



Joe's fruits:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Sure you have. You've heard that he attends Mass weekly, and has for very many years basically without exception. He goes to Mass even when he leaves the country.

In this day and age, there is simply no other good explanation for a Catholic coming to Mass weekly unless he really believes in Jesus Christ.

Or he's just a really good Catholic (in the sense of following a religion, rather than having an actual relationship with Christ)...

Also, optics... As doser said.

 

[Right Divider]

It's a fair question, asking if the evangelical outrage over Communion would be the same if Trump was Catholic. I doubt I'll get a fair answer.

Asking ridiculous hypotheticals is usually.... ridiculous.

The Church absolutely mishandled the child abuse scandals.

They mishandled the scandals?... They allowed priests to abuse children and hid that fact for years and years and years. It was as bad as can be!

But this isn't about that. This is a doctrinal question, not a law enforcement issue.

RCC doctrine is horrible, properly enforced or not.

 

[annabenedetti]

The mishandled the scandals?... They allowed priests to abuse children and hid that fact for years and years and years. It was as bad as can be!

You don't think everyone knows that? Of course they know that. The wording was doser's, I used his words in my reply to him.

RCC doctrine is horrible, properly enforced or not.

Whatever your opinion is on it, it's doctrinal. And all you who aren't Catholic, who hate/dislike/scorn/whatever Catholicism are here busy discussing a Church matter that normally wouldn't matter to you one whit.

Again: the bishops don't agree with each other, the Pope has warned the bishops about denying Communion, and this is more political than it is doctrinal or canonical. Any non-Catholic here discussing whether or not Joe Biden should be receiving Communion who doesn't care about, who scorns what Catholic Communion is all about - doesn't have a religious dog in the fight, only a political dog.

 

[Right Divider]

Whatever your opinion is on it, it's doctrinal.

I could care less about his inclusion or exclusion... I despise the false RCC doctrine.

And all you who aren't Catholic, who hate/dislike/scorn/whatever Catholicism are here busy discussing a Church matter that normally wouldn't matter to you one whit.

A false "Church" with false doctrines.

Again: the bishops don't agree with each other, the Pope has warned the bishops about denying Communion, and this is more political than it is doctrinal or canonical.

The RCC is a false religion that is very political about lots of things.

Any non-Catholic here discussing whether or not Joe Biden should be receiving Communion who doesn't care about, who scorns what Catholic Communion is all about - doesn't have a religious dog in the fight, only a political fight.

Even amongst RC's it's a primarily political issue.

 

[Idolater]

I believe he did

Well looky looky:

I don't know for sure about the source, being a "blog", but it's published by CNN:

How Catholic was John F. Kennedy?

By Daniel Burke, Belief Blog Co-editor [twitter-follow screen_name='BurkeCNN'] (CNN) -- When John F. Kennedy was a boy, his mother counseled her children on Good Fridays to pray for a peaceful death. Young Jack joked that he’d rather pray for two pet dogs.

religion.blogs.cnn.com

Quotes:

...In the words of one biographer, Kennedy was Mr. Saturday Night but also Mr. Sunday Morning, rarely missing a Mass....

...Kennedy . . . dutifully attended Easter Mass at a native hut, even as enemy aircraft circled overhead....

...John always hustled off to Mass on Sundays, even while traveling....

 

[Idolater]

There is an expectation that values follow faith.

He values coming to Mass, and that, barring some convincing evidence that it's just for 'optics', comes from faith.

For us Protestants, you can argue a bit, sure, but this discussion takes place within Catholic walls and there are certainly conservative Catholics that do and have questioned his faith because of a lot of adverse policies passed.

His position has been what a lot of Republicans have also offered---something like, I'm personally opposed to it, but I'm not going to try to impose my religion upon the public.

 

[Idolater]

Or he's just a really good Catholic (in the sense of following a religion, rather than having an actual relationship with Christ)...

That's your interpretation. There's really no such thing as a 'really good Catholic', there are just those who maintain full communion and those who don't.

Also, optics... As doser said.

If we examined his personal life, if he weren't a politician, I doubt that anybody would doubt his Christian faith.

 

[Idolater]

...They mishandled the scandals?... They allowed priests to abuse children and hid that fact for years and years and years. It was as bad as can be!

The kids were the victims most hurt by the child rapists of course. But those people, those violent criminals, took advantage of everybody in order to avoid detection and keep raping kids. There were more victims than the kids, though of course, they were the ones absolutely most harmed.

RCC doctrine is horrible, properly enforced or not.

Right, like the Trinity, like Christ's Resurrection being real, like the Second Coming, like abortion and homo-genital relations being grave sins---all horrible.

Plain.

 

[Idolater]

...what Catholic Communion is all about....

1st Corinthians 10:17 "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread."

Among many other things!

 

[Right Divider]

The kids were the victims most hurt by the child rapists of course. But those people, those violent criminals, took advantage of everybody in order to avoid detection and keep raping kids. There were more victims than the kids, though of course, they were the ones absolutely most harmed.

The Roman Catholic "church" HID those child rapists within the SYSTEM to make sure that the RCC and the child rapists did not face the consequences of their evil actions.

Right, like the Trinity, like Christ's Resurrection being real, like the Second Coming, like abortion and homo-genital relations being grave sins---all horrible.

I did not say that ALL of their doctrines were incorrect. If ALL of their doctrines were incorrect, no Christian would fall for their story.

Plain.

 

[annabenedetti]

1st Corinthians 10:17 "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread."

Among many other things!

The problem here is politicizing the Eucharist.