Theology Club: Blinding of Israel

Arial

Active member
What kind of drivel is this now? The minute you got here you had your dander up. You did the same thing at the last site you were at, and I tried to befriend you, seeing you were off base with many of the basics. Thus you've dug your own pit....just lay there and stop your griping until you can put off that foolish pride.

Good grief. It sucks having to deal with this kind of foolish pride. "All angles"....my foot.
Duly gob smaked (not) Judge of the living and the dead!. I see now you even know more about me than I know about myself.

What I did on the other site and what I do here is defend my beliefs, which are Christian, and don't buckle to intimidation, or believe what makes no sense whatsoever. And you didn't befriend me, I befriended you. All was hunky dory until I disagreed with you on MAD doctrine and didn't bow down and think that naturally you are right and I am wrong. When I didn't accept you as the superior that you pretend to be.

What would be nice would be if you actually engaged with what I say in my posts, even though you don't agree with it. Rather than just start insulting me and telling me I know nothing. You have never done that, discuss what I post. You simply tell me I am wrong, and the only thing you give me to counter my view is the same repeated scriptures---which I have engaged with, and shown you why, where, and on what scriptural grounds, it is possible to interpret what you quote in an entirely different way. ANd not a made up way, but a hermeneutical correct way. To which I get told I am stupid, am not saved, don't know anything, am proud, am a bad teacher, ignorant etc.

And obviously you take a great deal of pleasure in it, without a twinge of conscience, and will not stop. I bid you adieu, and leave you in God's hands.
 

Arial

Active member
By that logic no one before Christ died did.
That's generations and generations of mankind that died without any hope of salvation.
And we have in Hebrews 11 a long list of the OT heroes of faith, followed by Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

Faith in God before the coming of Christ was still faith in Christ, in the only way it had been revealed to them. And who knows what had or had not been revealed to an individual. They certainly were familiar with Messiah, and of Him being the Son for all who understood this. It is in the risen Christ that this salvation through faith in God goes to all the world, and to Jew and Gentile alike in the same way. and at the same time. David understood. He called Him my Lord.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately we live in an age of isims.

You'll hardly find any theology site that will study through a book of the bible verse by verse.
Instead, they only plant platitudes of their particular ism.
Theology stores are packed full of books on isms that sell like hotcakes.
But the section of the same theology store that has books on verse by verse studies are mostly left gathering dust on the shelves.
Go to any theology site these days and see how long it takes you to search out a verse by verse study thread.
And even if you do happen to find one that starts out that way, it quickly turns into a battle of isms instead.

And ALL of them use the same platitudes against the others.
I go by what scripture says, you don't.​
I rightly dividing the verses, you don't.​
I'm led by the Spirit, you're not.​
My viewpoint is more logical than your flaky viewpoint.​
blah​
blah​
blah​

This is what passes for theology study these days ---- weeding through the platitudes of isms.
For some it is all they are prepared for.
They don't have the desire or the patience for verse by verse study anymore without inserting isms into it.
 

Arial

Active member
Unfortunately we live in an age of isims.

You'll hardly find any theology site that will study through a book of the bible verse by verse.
Instead, they only plant platitudes of their particular ism.
Theology stores are packed full of books on isms that sell like hotcakes.
But the section of the same theology store that has books on verse by verse studies are mostly left gathering dust on the shelves.
Go to any theology site these days and see how long it takes you to search out a verse by verse study thread.
And even if you do happen to find one that starts out that way, it quickly turns into a battle of isms instead.

And ALL of them use the same platitudes against the others.
I go by what scripture says, you don't.​
I rightly dividing the verses, you don't.​
I'm led by the Spirit, you're not.​
My viewpoint is more logical than your flaky viewpoint.​
blah​
blah​
blah​

This is what passes for theology study these days ---- weeding through the platitudes of isms.
For some it is all they are prepared for.
They don't have the desire or the patience for verse by verse study anymore without inserting isms into it.
Go to any Christian book store and try and find a theology section! If they even have one, it might have four or five books in it. Nobody cares anymore, they just want formulas to a perfect life on earth.

Try and find a preacher that preaches the books of the Bible line by line, verse by verse, and reference it to other portions of the scriptures on the same topic. Or any preacher that expounds on the scriptures and their actual meaning, instead of leaving the meaning out to find ways to apply it to our felt needs.

I know you disagree with reformed theology, and that is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned, but in my searches for books and preachers like those you lament the lack of, it is there, and only there, that I have found consistent, line by line expounding on scripture. That is what I like about it. God and Jesus are always the subject. And it was a trademark of the preachers of the Reformation period. The predestination aspect of it aside, (which only comes up when it is contained in the scriptures being taught, if the preacher is worth his salt) there is a place where we can learn those things God intends us to learn, so that we can grow. That is why I like Voddie Bauchman. There are others, but I like his preaching style. One of the most powerful ones I have listened to is The Rescuer on youtube, if you are interested. You walk away from that glorifying Jesus as never before, and your focus zeroed in on Him. In utter awe and gratitude. Plus he has a great line in there you would get a kick out of. He is talking about who we call ito rescue us if the house is on fire. The fire department. And if someone is breaking into the house? In his house, he says they would call an ambulance while his wife gets the guns.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Unfortunately we live in an age of isims.

You'll hardly find any theology site that will study through a book of the bible verse by verse.
Instead, they only plant platitudes of their particular ism.
Theology stores are packed full of books on isms that sell like hotcakes.
But the section of the same theology store that has books on verse by verse studies are mostly left gathering dust on the shelves.
Go to any theology site these days and see how long it takes you to search out a verse by verse study thread.
And even if you do happen to find one that starts out that way, it quickly turns into a battle of isms instead.

And ALL of them use the same platitudes against the others.
I go by what scripture says, you don't.​
I rightly dividing the verses, you don't.​
I'm led by the Spirit, you're not.​
My viewpoint is more logical than your flaky viewpoint.​
blah​
blah​
blah​

This is what passes for theology study these days ---- weeding through the platitudes of isms.
For some it is all they are prepared for.
They don't have the desire or the patience for verse by verse study anymore without inserting isms into it.


I don't think verse by verse study will do much good.
Why? because we'll still have this same schism.


2 Peter 2:20-21, Heb. 6:4-6 ------- How salvation can be lost.

Eph. 4:30, Phil. 1:6 ---------------How salvation cannot be lost.


The problem is only solved by a dispensational understanding of scripture.






 

glorydaz

Well-known member
And we have in Hebrews 11 a long list of the OT heroes of faith, followed by Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

Faith in God before the coming of Christ was still faith in Christ, in the only way it had been revealed to them. And who knows what had or had not been revealed to an individual. They certainly were familiar with Messiah, and of Him being the Son for all who understood this. It is in the risen Christ that this salvation through faith in God goes to all the world, and to Jew and Gentile alike in the same way. and at the same time. David understood. He called Him my Lord.
You forgot the most important part, and then you add a bunch of blah blah...."And who knows ......."

Heb. 11
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What was the promise? It certainly wasn't that they would be members of the body of Christ.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Go to any Christian book store and try and find a theology section! If they even have one, it might have four or five books in it. Nobody cares anymore, they just want formulas to a perfect life on earth.

Try and find a preacher that preaches the books of the Bible line by line, verse by verse, and reference it to other portions of the scriptures on the same topic. Or any preacher that expounds on the scriptures and their actual meaning, instead of leaving the meaning out to find ways to apply it to our felt needs.

I know you disagree with reformed theology, and that is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned, but in my searches for books and preachers like those you lament the lack of, it is there, and only there, that I have found consistent, line by line expounding on scripture. That is what I like about it. God and Jesus are always the subject. And it was a trademark of the preachers of the Reformation period. The predestination aspect of it aside, (which only comes up when it is contained in the scriptures being taught, if the preacher is worth his salt) there is a place where we can learn those things God intends us to learn, so that we can grow. That is why I like Voddie Bauchman. There are others, but I like his preaching style. One of the most powerful ones I have listened to is The Rescuer on youtube, if you are interested. You walk away from that glorifying Jesus as never before, and your focus zeroed in on Him. In utter awe and gratitude. Plus he has a great line in there you would get a kick out of. He is talking about who we call ito rescue us if the house is on fire. The fire department. And if someone is breaking into the house? In his house, he says they would call an ambulance while his wife gets the guns.
That's right ....just go to those book stores and read all the wisdom of men you can find. :rolleyes:
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You forgot the most important part, and then you add a bunch of blah blah...."And who knows ......."

Heb. 11
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What was the promise? It certainly wasn't that they would be members of the body of Christ.
You haven't yet received the promise of your flesh body being changed from corruptible to incorruptible.
But you have an earnest expectation of it.
Apply the same standard to both promises.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Mine too.

David said "Blessed be the man in whom God does not impute sin".
If that could be done without the details of Christ dying and rising, then He died in vain because there was already a way.

Job said he knew his redeemer lived and he would see God after his earthly body died.

But some MADists will claim that their particular faith is superior in nature than all those other great men of faith.
Just different, Tam. Nothing superior about it.

You forget that the great men of faith had God doing great works among them. They had the law and the prophets.

Romans 3
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? ...

The gentiles were so estranged that God had to have a special plan for us.
To us was given the free gift of salvation. In fact, we are forbidden to contribute in any way to our salvation.
Lest any man should boast. Yes, even persevering until the end would give us something to boast about.
It's because the CROSS and Jesus' suffering on the cross should be ever before our face.


That CROSS was not before the face of the OT saints...God Almighty and faith in God was.
And the works that God required were also before their face.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
You haven't yet received the promise of your flesh body being changed from corruptible to incorruptible.
But you have an earnest expectation of it.
Apply the same standard to both promises.

It isn't a question of standards, but of timing according to God's plan.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
It isn't a question of standards, but of timing according to God's plan.
It's the same standard of neither having yet received the promise.
We are all still waiting for the complete fulfillment of the promise.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It's the same standard of neither having yet received the promise.
We are all still waiting for the complete fulfillment of the promise.
So, the Jews wait for their salvation, and we wait for our resurrected bodies.

Sounds alright, but I'm not sure that the redemption of our bodies would be considered a "promise".
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Temp Banned
Unfortunately we live in an age of isims.

You'll hardly find any theology site that will study through a book of the bible verse by verse.
Instead, they only plant platitudes of their particular ism.
Theology stores are packed full of books on isms that sell like hotcakes.
But the section of the same theology store that has books on verse by verse studies are mostly left gathering dust on the shelves.
Go to any theology site these days and see how long it takes you to search out a verse by verse study thread.
And even if you do happen to find one that starts out that way, it quickly turns into a battle of isms instead.

And ALL of them use the same platitudes against the others.
I go by what scripture says, you don't.​
I rightly dividing the verses, you don't.​
I'm led by the Spirit, you're not.​
My viewpoint is more logical than your flaky viewpoint.​
blah​
blah​
blah​

This is what passes for theology study these days ---- weeding through the platitudes of isms.
For some it is all they are prepared for.
They don't have the desire or the patience for verse by verse study anymore without inserting isms into it.
Reminds me of John MacArthur. He did that, he went line-by-line, for decades, before he realized that his overall understanding of the Scripture was something he called 'leaky Dispensationalism', and he wound up taking Calvinism seriously. I don't know what he 'identifies as' today, but your desire here to go through the whole Scripture line-by-line reminded me of MacArthur.

You can't do 'line-by-line' somehow 'above' or apart from your overall understanding of the Scripture. It's impossible to. You need a 'paradigm' or lens through which you're reading line-by-line, and so if you go line-by-line you're only going to be sketching out what your overall understanding of the Scripture is, because it's all going to be according to how it 'fits in' with your overall understanding of the Scripture, which is, as I'm sure JR could tell you, begging the question.

So when you're done going line-by-line, you're going to be debating theories, or schools of theology.
 
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glorydaz

Well-known member
Reminds me of John MacArthur. He did that, he went line-by-line, for decades, before he realized that his overall understanding of the Scripture was something he called 'leaky Dispensationalism', and he wound up taking Calvinism seriously. I don't know what he 'identifies as' today, but your desire here to go through the whole Scripture line-by-line reminded me of MacArthur.

You can't do 'line-by-line' somehow 'above' or apart from your overall understanding of the Scripture. It's impossible to. You need a 'paradigm' or lens through which you're reading line-by-line, and so if you go line-by-line you're only going to be sketching out what your overall understanding of the Scripture is, because it's all going to be according to how it 'fits in' with your overall understanding of the Scripture is, which is, as I'm sure JR could tell you, begging the question.

So when you're done going line-by-line, you're going to be debating theories, or schools of theology.
Yep. Therefore, we need to be smart enough to see who is being addressed, and the time period that is being discussed.

Some things are so obvious, it should go without saying. Too many folks aren't reading the word as it's written while seeing who it is being directed to.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Duly gob smaked (not) Judge of the living and the dead!. I see now you even know more about me than I know about myself.

What I did on the other site and what I do here is defend my beliefs, which are Christian, and don't buckle to intimidation, or believe what makes no sense whatsoever. And you didn't befriend me, I befriended you. All was hunky dory until I disagreed with you on MAD doctrine and didn't bow down and think that naturally you are right and I am wrong. When I didn't accept you as the superior that you pretend to be.

What would be nice would be if you actually engaged with what I say in my posts, even though you don't agree with it. Rather than just start insulting me and telling me I know nothing. You have never done that, discuss what I post. You simply tell me I am wrong, and the only thing you give me to counter my view is the same repeated scriptures---which I have engaged with, and shown you why, where, and on what scriptural grounds, it is possible to interpret what you quote in an entirely different way. ANd not a made up way, but a hermeneutical correct way. To which I get told I am stupid, am not saved, don't know anything, am proud, am a bad teacher, ignorant etc.

And obviously you take a great deal of pleasure in it, without a twinge of conscience, and will not stop. I bid you adieu, and leave you in God's hands.
I haven't called you ignorant or stupid. Why do you insist on bearing false witness like that?
 
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