yes, and he"will not be brought under the power" because he received.
I know you know, and Nick knows, but some think Nick is willing this
Theology Club: Blotting out of sins future for Israel
- Thread starter heir
- Start date
yes, and he"will not be brought under the power" because he received.
I know you know, and Nick knows, but some think Nick is willing this
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The individual Jewish believers had also received the atonement. But the blotting out of sins here refers to "corporate" Israel and not individuals:
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
This is what is being referred to here by Paul:
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).
On the other hand, individuals had their sins forgiven when they believed:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
It is ridiculous to argue that even though Peter said that the Holy Ghost had been given to him he had not yet received the atonement:
"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).
Last edited:
Thus the image of a cigar and wine, lol
Once, I was visiting a famous Grace Preacher and we went out to get a bite to eat at some place that served wine.
Given his great sense of humor and love of a prank at his expense that his equally great understanding of Grace had resulted in, I couldn't help messing with him.
So I said to him, 'why don't we order a glass of wine.'
He says to me he 'doesn't drink alcohol.'
So I say to him 'all things are lawful, you know.'
He says 'but they're not all expedient, and I don't need it...'
'Alright, then,' I say, 'water it is...'
"Now that," he says, "I know what to do with, lol."
Another time, I went to visit with another famous Grace preacher.
First thing out of his mouth was "You know... Paul wrote Hebrews..."
Not hello, not how are you, nor any of that...
'One of those two,' I thought some time later, 'needed a glass of wine, a chill pill or, some thing; as one of them was clearly under the power of something other than the power of the Cross.'
Lol, I'm on a roll - another time, I went two visit with these two other well-known Grace preachers.
The first one I visited with was KJV only, the second one was not.
Just to mess with each, I let them know I'd be paying a visit to the other.
The first one just went on and on lying about the second one.
The second one asks me how the first one is doing.
Still, I want to rattle his cage; have some fun with this grace wherein we stand; delivered from the hostility of men toward the truth of the Grace life!
So I tell him what the first guy said about him.
Quietly, and lovingly, He says to me, "now, he very well knows that is not how I hold to the position I hold to... We've met on several occasions and I've patiently gone over the specifics of our view with him, so how's your mom doing?"
This was early in my Mid-Acts walk... these moments made a great impression on me about how the Grace life could operate when allowed.
Mid-Acts being at odds with the traditions of men; including how some handle differences with others, it can not but attract some who's every point appears to be that of proving others wrong that they might glory in something other than the Cross and the Mystery they profess is the key to solving for all troubles.
I've never forgotten both the disappointment of that in some, but also, its example of the Grace life at work, in those willing to allow it to be their "excellent way..."
Made a huge impact on me... still does to this very day...
Philippians 1:
9. And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10. That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
11. Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
"Yet, not I, but Christ" that is... "the obedience of faith..."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The individual Jewish believers had also received the atonement. But the blotting out of sins here refers to "corporate" Israel and not individuals:
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
This is what is being referred to here by Paul:
"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).
On the other hand, individuals had their sins forgiven when they believed:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
It is ridiculous to argue that even though Peter said that the Holy Ghost had been given to him he had not yet received the atonement:
"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).
beloved57
Well-known member
The blotting out of sins took place at the Cross Col 2:14 !
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Then Peter told them a falsehood in Acts 3, if their sins could be blotted out before the LORD returned.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Those words of Peter were obviously addressed to corporate Israel.
Or else we must believe that every single time an 'individual" Jew repented then the Lord Jesus would be sent back to the earth:
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
On a corporate level if the nation as a whole did repent and turn to God then there sins would have been blotted out and the promise to send back the Son would be fulfilled. But not immediately.
beloved57
Well-known member
Peter addressed the Church, the Body of Christ who Saul persecuted!
Yes, that referred to Corporate Israel.
As for the other - too many scenarios needing to play out before His return.
For that matter; had they repented Corporately, what would have become of the Mystery "fold" of His Two Fold Purpose?
I suspect we will disagree on that, as; clearly, we appear to study these issues out differently.
Sort of like the hole in the notion of our enemies - that Darby got his Pre-Trib Rapture Position from a teenaged girl supposedly demon possessed - Darby was largely Cessasionist, lol
Really depends on where we look at the various issues from.
It really does...
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you mean that Peter was in error for saying that if the nation of Israel repented then the Son would be sent back?
As I said, Peter never said that would happen immediately.
beloved57
Well-known member
Israel, Abraham's ethnic physical descendants are not the Children of God and Promise Rom 9:8
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
There is no Salvation unto them at all !
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Paul was a physical descendant of Abraham. According to your ideas he was not a child of God!
beloved57
Well-known member
God promised to save people from all Nations!