annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Thinking of you, Desert Reign.
Brexit
- Thread starter Totton Linnet
- Start date
Thinking of you, Desert Reign.
champdefrene
Member
I'm voting Remain. The EU isn't perfect, and currently too undemocratic. And it hasn't handled recent crises in a compassionate or thought out way. But overall I think it's been a force for good. We have the most robust human rights, employment rights and environmental laws in the world. The EU is collectively the world's biggest international aid donor. And yes, I'm a fan of the European Court of Human Rights (which although not an EU organisation is central to a lot of EU law).
For many people, immigration is the key issue, but I'd be a hypocrite if I voted on that - and I don't think immigration is a problem per se. I've lived in France and Spain, and it was ridiculously easy to just pack up my bags and go. (Although it was also relatively easy when I lived in Palestine for 6 months.)
I feel British but also European, and feel like there is a European "culture". To me, Amsterdam, Prague, Valencia and Berlin all feel European and I'd be happy to live in probably any EU country. I feel closer to Europe than other anglophone countries like the US or even Australia.
And that's before even going into the economic arguments, which are the reasons I think most people will vote to stay.
For many people, immigration is the key issue, but I'd be a hypocrite if I voted on that - and I don't think immigration is a problem per se. I've lived in France and Spain, and it was ridiculously easy to just pack up my bags and go. (Although it was also relatively easy when I lived in Palestine for 6 months.)
I feel British but also European, and feel like there is a European "culture". To me, Amsterdam, Prague, Valencia and Berlin all feel European and I'd be happy to live in probably any EU country. I feel closer to Europe than other anglophone countries like the US or even Australia.
And that's before even going into the economic arguments, which are the reasons I think most people will vote to stay.
Thanks. Still here, just...
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Thank you for your presence here, for sharing with us how your mind works and your heart loves.
Thank you for the kindnesses you've shown me. I'll never forget.
They have had more than enough chances over the last 50 years.
If us leaving would be bad for the EU, it proves that something is wrong with it. We pay more than we get back. So they would lose money to pay for their crackpot schemes. The EU wants to form a super state. We don't. Let them get on with it. Let's not be a thorn in their side. Let's just acknowledge our differences and go our separate ways. Let them take responsibility for their actions. We play fair with the rules whilst other EU countries don't. So we have become the dumping ground for EU migrants from vastly poorer countries who are allowed to come here and earn even just minimum wages and then get benefts for themselves and their children back home. Without Britain, they would have one less country to send all their Muslim migrants to that Angela Merkel so naively allowed in. They are clogging up our health services, our schools and putting pressure on our housing. So of course they want us to stay in. Of course, it is to their benefit. Ours is a stable society - they need us to support the rest of their instability.
We've had 200+ in the US, and we still aren't done fixing it. But it seems like it's headed generally in the right direction.
Do you imagine that there would be nothing wrong with Britain standing alone? How long has it been since there was a referendum seeking to break up the country?
Any union is asymmetrical. If you had everything you needed and wanted nothing from each other, why even bother? I guess the question for Britain is whether what they get is worth what they must give.
Europe is full of nations with large self-images and small lands in which to fulfill them. This has lead to some pretty spectacular conflicts in the past, but not as many since the founding of the EU. Maybe it's a coincidence...
How often did Britain avoid getting drawn into instability on the continent before the EU was founded? It's a fair gripe, but I'm not sure you're balancing it accurately.
:cheers:
God bless you DR
The Eu is a spin off of Nazism, it really is, it is subjugation by the creepy creep. You look at the few titbits benefits but fail to see the broad picture.
[I don't mean DR, I agree with him]
People STILL do not know what happened in Ukraine, that was what happens when you say no to Europe, especially after receiving millions in bribes...they sent in the NGOs
Denmark had a referendum on Maastrict and said no as did Ireland...the Eu just came along and ordered a new referendum
They are SO DAMN ARROGANT!!!
They appointed a government for Italy putting in a banker for president
They dipped into people's bank accounts in Cyprus and Greece....after THEY had milked a sleaze bomb of money out of them through falsly aligning their economy with the help of the Banksters.
This is what they are like now...what will they be like when they do have total control?????
They are unelected, Neil Kinnock was twice rejected by the British but now as Eu commissioner he gets to decide how we spend our money
C'mon Britain show some willy
Imagine trying to make America give up it's borders and sovereignty.
It's STUPID we are just a tiny Island and they keep adding hundreds of thousands of people to our towns and cities every year...it is irresponsible too, I LOVE them, I am not racist....but I do see what will happen a few years from now.
Imagine trying to make America give up it's borders and sovereignty.
It's STUPID we are just a tiny Island and they keep adding hundreds of thousands of people to our towns and cities every year...it is irresponsible too, I LOVE them, I am not racist....but I do see what will happen a few years from now.
It is not an issue of right and wrong. There is no morality here. No one is guilty of anything if they want to leave the EU.
Yes, this is an issue but the EU is already full of severe inequalities, particularly the south-north divide and soon the impending far worse east-west divide. The principle of free movement of labour made sense with the early membership when countries were in a similar economic position to each other. But the facts have changed and principles are nothing but a liberal ideal, divorced from any connection with reality.
This was one of the scare tactics David Cameron tried to engratiate leavers with recently. 'If we leave there could be world war 3.' This kind of argument has only served to strengthen the resolve of the leavers.
When is the vote ?
23rd June
I agree, and I meant "wrong" in the same sense that you used it to refer to the EU. Britain as a lone entity has some serious structural issues that the EU helps to ameliorate, like the Scottish independence question. Britain standing alone might be initially more comfortable to many English, because that places the English in a very dominant position, not having to deal as much with German and French positions, but where does that leave the Scots, who seem to have an increasingly distinct identity? And if the Scots are alienated, how does that union stand?
I think that ultimately the union must either become stronger or weaker, but the current position won't hold. A single currency, without unified regulation of banking, and the ability to act in the collective interests of the (currency) union is a problem.
Yes, I can see how it sounds like a kind of a Chicken Little scenario. But it's also certainly not an unprecedented direction for Europe to go, and especially with the economic turmoil, the rise of far-right-wing and neo-fascist movements, and the willingness of Russia to fund dissent movements, it seems wrong to me to dismiss the possibility. And I think it is pretty clear that engagement makes war a lot more difficult. What happens if major debtor nations in Europe opt to walk away from the Euro and default rather than pay? Germany has made a pretty big point of the fact that the existing structures of the union don't allow for transfers of wealth between members. Will they let the default stand, or will they try to do something to extract what Greece owes?
I can't comment on hypothetical issues.
These issues have already been aired. Scotland has already been told in no uncertain trms that if they left the UK, they would not be able to use our currency. They would also be required to pay a reasonable share of the national debt. The EU has also told them that there would be no guarantee that the EU would have them. Scotland would become yet another country member of the EURO that would get into debt and need bailing out from time time.
However, Scotland already has a degree of independence from the UK, with their own regional assembly. They previously voted in a referendum to remain in the UK. I don't see how a new referendum would change that. They have already made their mind up.
It doesn't look to me as if it is getting stronger. Weaker countries like Greece are simply not getting the uplift they expected from EU membership.and this is despite all the many subsidies they received. Ireland has only just got away with bankruptcy by the skin of their teeth. They are not ready fr EU membership. Such countries need to be already much stronger economically before membership. The EU, in its thirst for idealism, has reduced the requirements for membership, thus creating a false sense of security. So these small countries will rush to join and receive all the benefits, only to find that, like Greece, they will fall over soon enough and find themselves in a worse position than before.
If Greece decided to default, then they would have to leave the EU. THeir position is aready similar to a default: they are soon approaching the need for a third bailout. This means that the EURO will be further weakened. And they now want to bring Turkey in, do me a favour!
It's those cotton-pickin' illuminati at it again.
I liked this comment on a BBC board. The comment was in reaction to David Cameron claiming that leaving would put a bomb under the British economy.
They have underestimated the level of anger people feel about being swamped by immigrants, this is not racism, we are not a racist people, it is the sheer numbers....
The disconnect between the establishment the media and the people in Britain is awesome. I always understood why the Tories won the last election.
....that does not guarantee the leave camp will win however
The disconnect between the establishment the media and the people in Britain is awesome. I always understood why the Tories won the last election.
....that does not guarantee the leave camp will win however