ECT CALVINISM: TULIP

[Faither]

They can't answer that with any kind of knowledge from God.

I have heard some Calvinists say that they are saved before they are born. But when I remind them that they claim one must prove understanding of the doctrine of Calvin, they seem confused.
Other Calvinists say that a person is saved only after they hear the Calvin doctrine and believe, and therefore it means any child who dies before understanding and believing is not one of the elect.

Thanks gt ,
This shouldn't be a difficult question .

Since mennosota doesn't know , does anyone holding to the tulip understanding know when the Holy Spirit is sealed into the elect , according to the tulip understanding ?

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks gt ,
This shouldn't be a difficult question .

Since mennosota doesn't know , does anyone holding to the tulip understanding know when the Holy Spirit is sealed into the elect , according to the tulip understanding ?

Thank you back. I would like to hear an answer from them too. Can this be answered though? I don't think they can because they will have to admit they are in a false denomination. Let them admit it that they can't answer it? That won't happen either.

 

[MennoSota]

Christ , God's Word , His promises , only belong to those who have received the Spirit of Christ .
Until that happens , none of what you posted applies .

So in accordance with the tulip topic , which I believe is your understanding of the Salvation process , at what specific point in the process does God seal the Spirit of Christ in the elect ?

Do you believe the elect are born with the Spirit of Christ ?

You have two questions.
1) The specific point when the Spirit seals the elect.
2) Are the elect born in Christ.
First, the specific point is for God to determine according to his Sovereign Providence. God knows. I am content with that.
Second, we are all born in sin. As Paul states, we were dead in our trespasses and sins...but God made us alive in Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

The elect are first the selected ones who are born from above and have kept or restored by repentence their "first" LOVE with Obedience, and FAith unto God evidenced by their lives to the end in whatever circumstances God has placed them. They are the "Body of Christ", the "manchild" of Rev 12:5 KJV being the "selected" ones.. Even of "the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17 (KJV) I believe they also to be of the elect but didn't make the cut in Rev 12:5.. See Rev 7:14 KJV.

 

[Faither]

You have two questions.
1) The specific point when the Spirit seals the elect.
2) Are the elect born in Christ.
First, the specific point is for God to determine according to his Sovereign Providence. God knows. I am content with that.
Second, we are all born in sin. As Paul states, we were dead in our trespasses and sins...but God made us alive in Christ.

I'm only asking the first question .

You have put on the table your understanding . An understanding of the salvation journey . You call this salvation journey " tulip " . At what point in the tulip process , in your understanding , are we positioned to recieve the Spirit of Christ ?

There are many happenings in the salvation process . Happenings that must happen correctly and in the correct order .

This should be a simple question to you and those who stand on this understanding .

 

[Cross Reference]

There are many happenings in the salvation process .

.You wrote "many" . . . I know 1. Why is more than 1 needed??

 

[genuineoriginal]

Correct...and Calvin never used the acronym. He expressed his observation of scripture in much more detail. The five points were in response to the 5 Remonstrances produced by Arminians. Sadly, many on this site have nothing in common with either positions.

It is a good thing that many on this site are neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

 

[Faither]

It is a good thing that many on this site are neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

There doesn't seem to be anyone who wants to defend tulip .

 

[genuineoriginal]

There doesn't seem to be anyone who wants to defend tulip .

The beliefs of Calvinism are indefensible.

 

[God's Truth]

The beliefs of Calvinism are indefensible.

That is for sure.

 

[Faither]

The beliefs of Calvinism are indefensible.

Is there anyone who stands on the calvanist theology willing to answer some questions .

So far they pop up with alot of declarations , and when asked a hard question they disappear or go into ignore mode .

We're all here to learn aren't we ?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is there anyone who stands on the calvanist theology willing to answer some questions .

So far they pop up with alot of declarations , and when asked a hard question they disappear or go into ignore mode .

We're all here to learn aren't we ?

You'd think that would be the case. But many on on here just to promote their ideas and not listen to anyone else. B57 and GT are good examples.

 

[Faither]

You'd think that would be the case. But many on on here just to promote their ideas and not listen to anyone elses. B57 and GT are good examples.

Yes I've learned that the hard way .

Wouldn't it be great if we could just put our understandings on the table to be tested , and have honest , civil discussion , with a mutual goal to know Christ better , or at all in many cases .

There's no doubt in my mind everyone here is being drawn to Christ by the Father . They wouldn't have any desire to know Him otherwise . It seems like the capability to be honest with themselves has been lost , and pride has taken over .

 

[Cross Reference]

Is there anyone who stands on the calvanist theology willing to answer some questions .

So far they pop up with alot of declarations , and when asked a hard question they disappear or go into ignore mode .

We're all here to learn aren't we ?

No. You aren't. You are here to proselytize.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes I've learned that the hard way .

Wouldn't it be great if we could just put our understandings on the table to be tested , and have honest , civil discussion , with a mutual goal to know Christ better , or at all in many cases .

There's no doubt in my mind everyone here is being drawn to Christ by the Father . They wouldn't have any desire to know Him otherwise . It seems like the capability to be honest with themselves has been lost , and pride has taken over .

You should be more careful how you judge others, because it reveals who you are exactly. Read that last thing what you say about pride. That is you, prideful.

 

[God's Truth]

You'd think that would be the case. But many on on here just to promote their ideas and not listen to anyone else. B57 and GT are good examples.

I am sure of my beliefs and don't mind using my sword to prove my beliefs, especially to those who are sure of theirs.
How about answer this: You aren't here to promote your ideas?
I listen carefully to what others have to say. You shouldn't bear of witness.

 

[God's Truth]

There is something all Calvinists cannot get around, and it is that God does not give His Spirit to cause someone to believe in Him. God does not save those who do not believe in Him and hate Him.

 

[Faither]

You should be more careful how you judge others, because it reveals who you are exactly. Read that last thing what you say about prided. That is you, prideful.

The Spirits man judges all things , and Is under no man's judgement . Temporal judgements not eternal . This is the judgement I've blessed you with .
You should be thanking God for this insead of trampling on it .

 

[God's Truth]

The Spirits man judges all things , and Is under no man's judgement . Temporal judgements not eternal . This is the judgement I've blessed you with .
You should be thanking God for this insead of trampling on it .

You are not speaking and judging for God.

You are speaking and judging falsely.

You preach against obeying God.

Anyone with any ability to reason will know that you are dead wrong and in grave error.

 

[God's Truth]

So pathetic is Faither.

Faither, no one can surrender to God unless they obey Him and stop sinning.

You are in a snare.