Christ died for them not appointed to Wrath.

[Nanja]

Mal 1:1-4

The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.

There is a people against whom the Lord hath indignation, and that for ever: that the Lord never loved them, never intended to save them, and has made no provision for them; they are appointed not unto salvation, but unto condemnation.

These people whom God hates and appoints to wrath, He created them vessels of wrath and fits them for His just everlasting indignation !

Exactly Brother ! Ps. 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

 

[marke]

Not what the verse says.

What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, - Romans 9:22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:22&version=NKJV

Romans 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Calvinists believe God was patiently waiting for God to finish saving the elect before judging the wicked that He never had any desire or intention of saving.

 

[Clete]

Humans have extreme difficulty understanding eternity. Time is not the same with spirits in eternity as it is with humans on earth. God is simultaneously in existence at the end of time as well as at the beginning of time. God sees the choices men make as they make them and He can tell from the beginning what those choices will be even though He does not make them do and think what they do and think.

!00% irrational, not to mention unbiblical, nonsense.

Not that you care about such things.

 

[beloved57]

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep!” What do those words mean? Jn 10:26

There are goats as well as sheep in this world. Matt 25

There are reprobates as well as elect sinners among Adam’s fallen sons and daughters. Rom 11

There are vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy in this world. Rom 9; 1 Thess 5

 

[JudgeRightly]

There are vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy in this world. Rom 9; 1 Thess 5

There are vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy in the world of the Elect?

 

[marke]

“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep!” What do those words mean? Jn 10:26

There are goats as well as sheep in this world. Matt 25

There are reprobates as well as elect sinners among Adam’s fallen sons and daughters. Rom 11

There are vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy in this world. Rom 9; 1 Thess 5

Vessels of wrath start out as lumps ofc lay God begins to work for good just like every other lump of clay God begins to work with. However, some (or many) lumps God begins to work with become hopelessly hardened against His efforts to make them good so He must remake them as vessels of dishonor instead of vessels of honor. Why else would God have to rework a clay that did not turn out to be workable in His hands?

Jeremiah 18

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,

6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Vessels of wrath start out as lumps ofc lay God begins to work for good just like every other lump of clay God begins to work with. However, some (or many) lumps God begins to work with become hopelessly hardened against His efforts to make them good so He must remake them as vessels of dishonor instead of vessels of honor. Why else would God have to rework a clay that did not turn out to be workable in His hands?

Jeremiah 18

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,

2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,

6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

A question I always ask those tho try to use that passage to defend calvinism:

Did the potter ever finish forming the lump of clay? Or did He remake it before He finished?

 

[marke]

A question I always ask those tho try to use that passage to defend calvinism:

Did the potter ever finish forming the lump of clay? Or did He remake it before He finished?

I believe the Lord does make vessels suitable for honorable use while still adding touches of perfection, and I believe that if the Lord has to remake a vessel because it becomes hard in His hand, He remakes that hardened lump into a vessel of dishonor in His next working of the clay.