There are two pictorial words for Faith in the Hebrew , they are associated with the words you presented . Do you know what they are ?
Could most modern English translations be in error?
- Thread starter GregoryN
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There are two pictorial words for Faith in the Hebrew , they are associated with the words you presented . Do you know what they are ?
My argument is that the "faith" concept is long existed, wording itself is never a point.
Rosenritter
New member
If we were native Greeks, I would suggest pistis but since English is our tongue and the I can read the scriptures in English, I would use the word faith. When I see the Strongs expanded definition you gave (4102) the immediate word that comes to mind is faith.
While the word faith might be a noun, English has a very simple adjustment for applying a noun as an action. For example, faith can become to have faith having faith. It's a mechanism that is built into the language.
Jas 2:18 KJV
(18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Faith is belief in action, thus James questions the validity of a faith that has no works.
I don't see a need to correct the translation. It already makes sense to me in the same way as you describe.
Got ya .
Rosenritter
New member
Hope that's a "good" "Got ya!" If your goal is to ensure an understanding of faith and belief then this is good, it's a worthy cause and will probably continue to need effort. James devoted some time to this and wasn't his epistle recorded in Greek?
But as for using the examples of faith and belief for the question of whether most modern English translations are in error in that instance, I would say "no" for the aforementioned reasons that the same understanding was communicated by those English translations. At least it was for me. As for someone else not me, I suspect that replacing their English bible with a Greek one would be less than helpful. A step backwards from Tyndale.
That's kind of why I brought up those two pictorial words in the Hebrew for Faith .
1) " is the running to the shelter of a mother birds wings .". Emphasis on the continual running towards something .
2) " to lean on a staff , with "ALL" your weight behind it . Emphasis on complete trust in the staff .
No , absolutely a good got ya ! Out of respect for your respect . You know how rare that is in here .
I have a thread in ECT forum called pisteuo the secret of the universe . That has a basic foundation o what I would share with you . Be glad to talk about this more with you , but if you are holding to only the English translations , I would just hope God has a different plan to get you to the same place .
Rosenritter
New member
I trust that when we are changed we will understand all tongues. In the meantime I have faith that God can communicate through his Spirit with the English translation that he has given me and I haven't been let down by acting on that belief. Maybe I will look at the other thread later.
Whilst finding the learned discussion here interesting I suggest we need to define concepts such as ‘original’, either mistranslated or not. Many sweeping claims the Bible is the innerant ‘Word of God’ fall flat without proof any particular version is the ‘original’ one.
For me this isn’t a mere academic exercise. For instance, the controversy over the ‘correct’ translation of a passage attributed by some to Paul at 1st Timothy.1:10 may illustrate this problem. Such assertions such as ’the clear teaching of the Bible’is homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord are cast in doubt if we examine the tranlation of arsenokoitis as used in 1st Timothy. The Revised Standard Version gives this as ’sodomites’, the King James version as ’those that defile themselves with mankind’. Linguistic scholars of ancient Greek are mostlty inclined to translate arsenokoitis as ’someone who abuses relationships for personal or monetary gain, some giving the translation as ‘pimp’ Where does the truth lie? And this is before we put Galatians 1:13-17 and Philippians 3,5-6 under the academic microscope not to mention Leviticus in relation to the death penalty.
As to any claim ‘God can communicate through is Spirit with the English translation he has given me’ there’s a real problem. How do you know such a ‘communication' is indeed from the deity you imagine it to be? Here we confront that ancient problem of faith and knowledge even Aquinus couldn’t solve.
For me this isn’t a mere academic exercise. For instance, the controversy over the ‘correct’ translation of a passage attributed by some to Paul at 1st Timothy.1:10 may illustrate this problem. Such assertions such as ’the clear teaching of the Bible’is homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord are cast in doubt if we examine the tranlation of arsenokoitis as used in 1st Timothy. The Revised Standard Version gives this as ’sodomites’, the King James version as ’those that defile themselves with mankind’. Linguistic scholars of ancient Greek are mostlty inclined to translate arsenokoitis as ’someone who abuses relationships for personal or monetary gain, some giving the translation as ‘pimp’ Where does the truth lie? And this is before we put Galatians 1:13-17 and Philippians 3,5-6 under the academic microscope not to mention Leviticus in relation to the death penalty.
As to any claim ‘God can communicate through is Spirit with the English translation he has given me’ there’s a real problem. How do you know such a ‘communication' is indeed from the deity you imagine it to be? Here we confront that ancient problem of faith and knowledge even Aquinus couldn’t solve.
Rosenritter
New member
1. Do you believe in the creation of the heavens and the earth?
2. Do you believe that the world that was was destroyed by a worldwide flood?
3. Do you believe that Christ died, was buried, and rose three days later?
4. Do you believe that the scriptures are from God?
5. Do you believe this passage (below) are actual words of Christ or fabricated by someone else?
Matthew 5:18 KJV
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The only followup question to that answer to that question is this:
Does truth exist?
Rosenritter
New member
If you don't believe God is our Creator, and you don't believe that Christ rose from the dead, and you don't believe the scriptures are of God, then what right do you have to argue over whether a New Testament passage is correctly translated or accurate from the original? Given your negative answers to all of those questions, it would seem that you think this is a deluded joke anyway. If I have misjudged you then please help with my misunderstanding.
genuineoriginal
New member
[MENTION=20877]Ayn Marx[/MENTION] is your username a combination of Ayn Rand and Karl Marx?
genuineoriginal
New member
This thread is in the Religion forum, not the Exclusively Christian Theology forum.
Anyone can chime in despite their unbelief.
:idunno:
Rosenritter
New member
I am not challenging the right or freedom of anyone to post, but rather the validity (or even sense) of questioning whether a phrase was correctly translated if the origin of the passage is considered worthless anyway.
When you or I talk about the translation of a passage, it is because we consider the proper understanding to be from above, that the words and meaning are of God. But when Any Rand questioned the passage, he (she?) was meaning that the opinion of one person may not have been correctly translated because of the opinion of a different person, and as such the question is pointless, as either end arrives at the opinion of one person.
genuineoriginal
New member
Rosenritter
New member
Some handy tags besides QUOTE and /QUOTE also include SPOILER and /SPOILER. Just place flat brackets [ and ] to make the tags active and watch your posts become legible and easy on the eyes. Gain the respect and admiration of your peers!
This one's for you Rosey!
Use the [NOPARSE] tags when you want to show what the tags look like without putting spaces between the brackets.
Like so:
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[SPOILER]
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[B]
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