Re: Re: Re: Re: daniel
Re: Re: Re: Re: daniel
Originally posted by elohiym
As far as 1PM goes, if you cannot be specific, then what were you telling me I should correct her for? Is your case against 1PM so weak you cannot even state your allegations?
Oh well, if you can't make your point, perhaps you should refrain from making vague accusations. 1PM gave you scripture for everything she said about you, and she was right on.I quoted Jesus himself, but you don't want to believe him. Why?
Here is the
link.
If you don't want to read it and get the whole story, that's your choice. But I'm not going to debate 1PM with you on this thread.
He absolutely did not judge the Pharisees, or the money changers.
"You brood of vipers"
"You belong to your father, the devil"
That sounds pretty judgemental to me. If I said those things to
you, you would tell me I'm judging.
You obviously don't have a clue what "judge" means. Removing a speck from someone's eye is not judging that person.
In context, what does it mean then? Did we go from judging to proper lens care in that paragraph?
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
Oh, so I see, rather than look at all the verses together, you just grab the ones you think make your point.
Careful pointing fingers there, it looks like it's you that likes to pick and choose so far.
Does that verse state that Jesus will judge anyone? Does that verse say Paul judges himself? Does that verse state we should judge anyone outside the church?
When Christ comes back, is he bringing a:
A. Flower
B. Latest Bestseller from Barns & Noble
C. Sword
After you answer, maybe we can decide if Christ judges or not.
Look, Nin, you said that Jesus was not a "judge-not-er", which is contrary to Jesus' own statements about himself.
Look, He absolutely judged what the pharisees were doing was wrong. He absolutly judged what the money changers were doing was wrong. If He
didn't judge them, He had no business correcting them.
Can you back up your assertion that Jesus came to judge?
When Christ was here He had some things to accomplish. Namely dying for us. At that time, He didn't come to judge us all, but to save us. To take this to mean Christ never judged is simply silly. He did judge while He was here and He is coming back with either a flower, a bestseller or a sword. If it's a sword, it won't be carried in vain.
If you cannot, then don't act like a false teacher and teach people that Jesus came to judge.
I made my position known above. It's you that needs to take Christ out of context to make your point. Both Christ and Paul instructs us to use righteous judgement.
Read the context of the verse and who Jesus was talking to when he said that.
Where am I not?
Also, you think that you are capable of righteous judgment? I suppose then you can keep all the commandments to obtain eternal life, like Jesus seemed to be telling people to do.
I'm not under the Law, so why would I observe the Law for righteousness? Christ's righteousness was imparted to me when I was baptised into the Body. I use His standard, not my own.
Jesus did not come to judge. He stated so himself.
You seem to want to skip what He is saying:
"for I came not to judge the world,
but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the
word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
Now compare that to:
"Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty."
Jesus wasn't saying He is non judgemental, but that the time of judgement wasn't
then. But it's coming.
You have to show me a verse where Jesus states he came to judge. You can't.
What I
can't do is believe you need to take Christ so far out of context to make your point.
Examples of what you percieve is judgment by him are irrelevant in light of Jesus' own testimony about himself.
Only if we misunderstand what Christ says and redefine half a dozen words can we arrive at your conclusion.
Where have I judged? I don't judge anyone. Christ's words do the judging, not me.
And so far, you have some logs you need to get rid of, so you can see clearly to help me with a percieved speck.
If you hate, you are in darkness. Jesus said that, not me.
If you hate, you are a liar. Jesus said that, not me.
If you hate, you are a murderer. Jesus said that, not me.
But select capable men from all the people-men who fear God, trustworthy men who
hate dishonest gain-and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens.
Let those who love the LORD
hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
To fear the LORD is to
hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts. Perhaps the LORD God Almighty will have mercy on the remnant of Joseph.
You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD
hates.
God is in darkness, a liar and a murderer? Or is it possible there
are things appropriate to hate?
You seem to think that because I can discern that certain people who claim to be Christians are not because Christ's words state they are not, that somehow it makes me judgmental. That's a riot.
It seems to me you take Christ out of context when it comes to judgement, so I question your judgement. If you want to call being judemental something else, fine, but that only makes you a veiled hypocrite.
What is an unrepentant homosexual?
A homosexual who hasn't repented.
Have you ceased from every act of the flesh that would have condemned you under the same law as a homosexual?
You mean like do I lust for witchcraft? I did right after I repented, but through faith, that lust has gone away.
Did the law condemn you, or what?
Yes. It did. Fortunatly, because none of the judgenot "Christians" would.
Did you repent by stoping all those acts of the flesh, or by accepting righteousness by faith?
I still hungered for it for a little while. But I practiced my faith and turned to Christ in those times.
Oh, so you can't explain what repentance is.
I can if you don't know what it is.
I knew you wouldn't be able to.
You really don't know God called people to repentance repeatedly?
Just so you won't go off on a tangent about me not explaining repentance to you, it means to
be sorry for and
to turn from.
Explain repentance, and I'll tell you what's with "objective" and "subjective".
If you plan on telling me people get to define sin, please skip it. I've heard it before and I choose to believe God's definitions.
What does it mean to believe in Jesus, Nin? Do you even know?
Perhaps at this point I need to ask you which Jesus? The Word Who is part of the One True Triune God or the losely defined pantheon you belive in?
I'm starting to wonder.Their is only one way to the Father. You know that; but I seriously doubt you know the way based on your own words.
You aren't the gate keeper to the Body
What is the definition of self-righteous?
Defining your own righteousness.
Oh, and I noticed you conviently avoided answering this one:
Daniel said, "They use intimidation, rudeness, cruelty, anger and hatred as their tools."
To which you replied, "All of those "tools" are within bounds to use."
That is a totally false statement, and in my opinion only someone in darkness could make such a statement. So feel free to prove to us that you are not in darkness, Nin. Show me Jesus tells us that intimidation, rudeness, cruelty, anger and hatred are within bounds to use.
Hate is a tool. God uses it. Mockery is a tool. Anger is a tool.
Hate has already been talked about above. God used mockery a few times. Once he sent a dream of bread to an army and it scared them so badly they ran away. (pretty funny if you ask me) And yes, God even gets angry. He got angry with Isreal more than once.
I wouldn't define "intimidation", "cruelty" or "rudeness" as tools, although rudeness sometimes comes with mockery. "Intimidation" and "cruelty" can be broadly defined to include even
niceness. (and before you disagree, I have been accused of being "mean" even when I was being as nice as humanly possible)
You statement contradicts the Bible in so many ways, it is remarkable. Take just cruelty. It is written...
Pr 11:17 The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh.
Pr 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
Ps 27:12 Deliver me not over unto the will of mine enemies: for false witnesses are risen up against me, and such as breathe out cruelty.
Ps 74:20 Have respect unto the covenant: for the dark places of the earth are full of the habitations of cruelty.
How can cruelty be a "tool" of the righteous, Nineveh?
Read above.
