Theology Club: Did the Body of Christ Began at Acts 9?

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
There are many sincere believers in the Mid Acts community who say that the following verses prove that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim.1:15-16).​

I do not think that these verses say that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ. Instead, Paul is saying that we should look at his own life "first" as an example that demonstrates just how far the grace of the Lord reaches. Paul sees himself as being not worthy to be an apostle because he "persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor.15:9) and describes himself as "chief" or "first in rank" among all sinners. Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
There are many sincere believers in the Mid Acts community who say that the following verses prove that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim.1:15-16).​

I do not think that these verses say that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ. Instead, Paul is saying that we should look at his own life "first" as an example that demonstrates just how far the grace of the Lord reaches. Paul sees himself as being not worthy to be an apostle because he "persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor.15:9) and describes himself as "chief" or "first in rank" among all sinners. Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.


Hi , and I first use Acts 9:6 and then 1 Cor 12:3 and 1 Cor 15:8 which are UN-DENIABLE and it sees who can or will DISPUTE these 3 verses ??

And the Greek word PROTO means FIRST saved and not the biggest SINNER as Phil 3:6 under the Law BLAMELESS !!

DAN P
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
There are many sincere believers in the Mid Acts community who say that the following verses prove that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim.1:15-16).​

I do not think that these verses say that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ. Instead, Paul is saying that we should look at his own life "first" as an example that demonstrates just how far the grace of the Lord reaches. Paul sees himself as being not worthy to be an apostle because he "persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor.15:9) and describes himself as "chief" or "first in rank" among all sinners. Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.

Paul was the first, as a pattern. Read it again
 

Right Divider

Body part
There are many sincere believers in the Mid Acts community who say that the following verses prove that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ:
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" (1 Tim.1:15-16).​
I do not think that these verses say that Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ. Instead, Paul is saying that we should look at his own life "first" as an example that demonstrates just how far the grace of the Lord reaches. Paul sees himself as being not worthy to be an apostle because he "persecuted the church of God" (1 Cor.15:9) and describes himself as "chief" or "first in rank" among all sinners. Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.
Come on Jerry.

What do you think that "A PATTERN TO THEM WHICH SHOULD HEREAFTER BELIEVE" means?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Hi , and I first use Acts 9:6 and then 1 Cor 12:3 and 1 Cor 15:8 which are UN-DENIABLE and it sees who can or will DISPUTE these 3 verses ??

And the Greek word PROTO means FIRST saved and not the biggest SINNER as Phil 3:6 under the Law BLAMELESS !!

DAN P

You are wrong when you say that Paul was the first person saved, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words here spoken to a woman:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:47-50).​

As long as you continue to follow the teachings of those within the Neo-MAD camp you will continue to make these giant blunders, Dan.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Come on Jerry.

What do you think that "A PATTERN TO THEM WHICH SHOULD HEREAFTER BELIEVE" means?

Are you also among those who are ignorant of the fact that Paul was not the first person saved.

Paul was a "pattern" in regard to the "longsuffering" of the Lord, not to salvation. Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Did the Body of Christ Began at Acts 9?

It began with Adam and Eve, they Pictured Christ and the Church Eph 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
 

musterion

Well-known member
You are wrong when you say that Paul was the first person saved, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words here spoken to a woman:
"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:47-50).​
As long as you continue to follow the teachings of those within the Neo-MAD camp you will continue to make these giant blunders, Dan.

So the BOC started at least in Luke 7? Was that woman saved by believing Christ had died for her sins, was buried and rose again from the dead?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Are you also among those who are ignorant of the fact that Paul was not the first person saved.

Paul was a "pattern" in regard to the "longsuffering" of the Lord, not to salvation. Paul is saying that if the Lord can reach down in grace to save him then anyone can be saved.
I just understand it like it's written Jerry.
1Ti 1:16 KJV Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
It's quite clear.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I've always found that to be a very good point.

Are you so uninformed that you actually think that Paul was the first person saved despite these words of the Lord Jesus spoken to a woman many years before Paul was saved?:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:47-50).​

You have been given some bad information.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
You are wrong when you say that Paul was the first person saved, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words here spoken to a woman:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:47-50).​

As long as you continue to follow the teachings of those within the Neo-MAD camp you will continue to make these giant blunders, Dan.



Hi Jerry and PROTO means FIRST and is un-deniable !!

Chief is used when talking about some one in RANK !!

I see that 1 Cor 15: escaped your thinking , as it has TRUMPED all that you have written !!

I see that 1 Cor 12:3 is proof of Paul's salvation , and care to say what that verse MEANS ??


Also explain what Rom 1:1 means , another coup for Acts 9:6 !!

Prove that there is an Acts 13 position in Acts 13 ??

dan p
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
So the BOC started at least in Luke 7? Was that woman saved by believing Christ had died for her sins, was buried and rose again from the dead?

Do you continue to assert that Paul was the first person saved despite the fact that the Lord Jesus told a woman that she was saved many years before Paul was saved?

And no one has said that the New Man, the Body of Christ, began as early as Luke 7. Despite that fact Paul speaks of those who were "in Christ" prior to him:

"Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me" (Ro.16:7).​

Paul also says that if anyone be "in Christ" then he is a new creation:

"So if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold all things have become new" (2 Cor.5:17; J. N. Darby Translation).​

Cornelius Stam says, "The above rendering of II Cor. 5:17 by J.N.Darby, in his 'New Translation,' is doubtless more accurate than that of the 'Authorized Version.' This 'new creation,' this 'one new man,' this 'joint body,' formed of Jews and Gentiles made one in Christ, is called 'His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' (Eph. 1:23)" (Stam, True Spirituality [Berean Literature Foundation, 1984], p. 48,50).

Those who are said to be "in Christ" are members of the Church, which is His Body. If "any one be in Christ" he is a member of the Body of Christ. It is inconceivable that Paul would use the phrase "in Christ" indiscriminately, sometimes applying it to the Body of Christ and sometimes not. That would lead to nothing but confusion and our Lord is not a God of confusion.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Hi Jerry and PROTO means FIRST and is un-deniable !!

According to your strange ideas Paul was the "first person saved" despite the fact that the Lord Jesus told a woman that she was saved many years prior to Paul's salvation.

Do you think that the Lord Jesus was in error when He told that woman that she was saved?
 

musterion

Well-known member
Jerry,

Are you saying that the Jew/Gentile Body of Christ, in which that distinction is lost, existed when the distinction was still very much in place? When CHRIST HIMSELF COMMANDED that none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel were to be preached to? When the best possible hope a Gentile had was to become a proselyte? Is that what you're saying?

Just want to make sure we understand you, because Gal 3:27-28, Eph 2:14, Col 3:11.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I just understand it like it's written Jerry.
1Ti 1:16 KJV Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
It's quite clear.

You obviously have a difficult time understanding simple English.

It was Paul who the Lord used to show forth all "longsuffering," not the first to be saved.

Or perhaps you think that the Lord Jesus was in error when he told a woman that she was saved at Luke 7, many years before Paul was saved?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Are you saying that the Jew/Gentile Body of Christ, in which that distinction is lost, existed when the distinction was still very much in place? When CHRIST HIMSELF COMMANDED that none but the lost sheep of the house of Israel were to be preached to?

I do not believe that the Body of Christ could have had its beginning at any time prior to the Cross, as witnessed by Paul's words here:

"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).​

I believe Paul when he wrote of others being "in Christ" prior to him.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Also, Jerry, you must not have seen where I asked you this.

Please answer.

No, He had not yet been nailed to the Cross. But she had been saved when she believed that Jesus s the Christ, the Son of God. This was the gospel or good news which was preached to the Jews and was later called the gospel of the circumcision.

What do you think that that gospel declares?
 
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