Does everyone receive the same reward or punishment?

RevTestament

RevTestament

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In another thread I made some comments to which another poster expressed interest in responding to - but I have decided to separate out the comments into different threads - so here goes the first:

Well let's just say I believe some can be saved from hell
Revelation 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I also believe heaven has an order - there is more than just a saved state.
Matthew 20:23
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

John 14:2
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Another poster commented:
That being said, I'm sure a number of us would like to continue this conversation, in a way that's not a distraction to the goal to pray for this forum.
Click to expand...

So I pose a couple of questions and scriptures for the purpose of this discussion:

1. Do the wicked all receive the same punishment?

for the purpose of this discussion some might find the following relevant:
Matthew 11:24
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

2. Is it possible to be saved from hell?
Do the wicked go to hell before or after judgment?

3. Do the saved all receive the same reward?
an additional scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
 
john w

john w

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Matthew 23 KJV

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Survey Luke 20:47 KJV, Mark 12:38-40 KJV
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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john w said:
Matthew 23 KJV

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Survey Luke 20:47 KJV, Mark 12:38-40 KJV
Click to expand...

Yes, not everyone will be hanging out in the smoking section with GT.
 
A

aikido7

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Matthew 5:45:

...that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

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1. Do the wicked all receive the same punishment?

1. YEP

2. Is it possible to be saved from hell?

2. YEP

3. Do the saved all receive the same reward?

3. YEP , ETERNAL LIFE BUT LATER MORE REWARDS

4. Do the wicked go to hell before or after judgment?

4. AFTER - TO BURN ALL THE GARBAGE LEFT OVER FROM THE WARS
 
W

whitestone

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Is the cross judgment? Did the father in his judgment see the world in a state of lost,dead,without hope and send his son to change that? when will the world be judged,or when was it judged?,,,Is the cross the worlds judgment?
 
Caino

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RevTestament said:
In another thread I made some comments to which another poster expressed interest in responding to - but I have decided to separate out the comments into different threads - so here goes the first:

Well let's just say I believe some can be saved from hell
Revelation 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I also believe heaven has an order - there is more than just a saved state.
Matthew 20:23
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

John 14:2
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Another poster commented:

So I pose a couple of questions and scriptures for the purpose of this discussion:

1. Do the wicked all receive the same punishment?

for the purpose of this discussion some might find the following relevant:
Matthew 11:24
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

2. Is it possible to be saved from hell?
Do the wicked go to hell before or after judgment?

3. Do the saved all receive the same reward?
an additional scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Click to expand...

Burning hell is the kind of thing men would conceive of, it's the kind of thing men do to one another. Considering that these same animalistic men think of God as one like themselves, they have concocted these despicable theories and ascribed them to God. It is no different than the ISIS kind of God.

There is life of endless spiritual growth or eternal death.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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RevTestament said:
In another thread I made some comments to which another poster expressed interest in responding to - but I have decided to separate out the comments into different threads - so here goes the first:

Well let's just say I believe some can be saved from hell
Revelation 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Click to expand...

Keep reading. Key parts are missing from the partial post.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
RevTestament said:
In another thread I made some comments to which another poster expressed interest in responding to - but I have decided to separate out the comments into different threads - so here goes the first:

Well let's just say I believe some can be saved from hell
Revelation 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I also believe heaven has an order - there is more than just a saved state.
Matthew 20:23
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

John 14:2
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Another poster commented:

So I pose a couple of questions and scriptures for the purpose of this discussion:

1. Do the wicked all receive the same punishment?

for the purpose of this discussion some might find the following relevant:
Matthew 11:24
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

2. Is it possible to be saved from hell?
Do the wicked go to hell before or after judgment?

3. Do the saved all receive the same reward?
an additional scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Click to expand...

Very challenging questions!

Revelation 20:13 (NKJV)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Understanding the word "hades" and the corresponding Hebrew word "sheol" is vital to our understanding of what death is all about.

Looking up some of the verses that these two words were used in tell us that hades and sheol are simply referring to being dead in a grave. This state of being dead in a grave has nothing to do with how a person lived their lives, whether a believer devoted to doing the will of God or a God rejector.

Psalm 89:48

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [sheol]? Selah.

Psalm 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [sheol]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 49:15

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave [sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Job 21:13

They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave [sheol].

But not only do people go to sheol, the grave, but so do animals.

Psalm 49:12,14

Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.

14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them....

Jesus Christ was similarly in the grave, sheol or hades.

Matthew 12:40

Acts 2:30-32

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell [hades], neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

The words hades and sheol have been translated both grave and hell, thus confusing the average Bible reader.

Thus hades and sheol are simply references to the state of being dead in a grave. ("Are the Dead Alive Now?" VP Wierwille)

Christians who have died before the return of Christ for the church, I Thessalonians 4:13-18 will rise from the dead, even as Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

The first and second resurrections, that is the resurrection of the just and the unjust that shall occur as described in the book of Revelation is when the rest of the dead shall be raised either to live forever in the presence of God, the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just. The unbelievers will be raised from the dead to receive the sentence of the second death. Their error will be made plain to them before they die the second death for they will come "face to face" with God and His son and will full realize that that their chosen error was inexcusable, Romans 1:19-20, and they shall reap the crop of the seeds they sowed. They did not want God or any of His blessings, so they do not get them, God is the author of life, they did not want God, they get death, the second death. Romans 6:23

That is enough for now.
 
RevTestament

RevTestament

New member
john w said:
Matthew 23 KJV

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Survey Luke 20:47 KJV, Mark 12:38-40 KJV
Click to expand...

SaulToPaul said:
Yes, not everyone will be hanging out in the smoking section with GT.
Click to expand...
OK, we have some MADs who seem to agree that not all punishment is the same :D How about the converse? What do MADs say about scriptures like this:
Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [h]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
RevTestament

RevTestament

New member
oatmeal said:
Very challenging questions!

Revelation 20:13 (NKJV)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Understanding the word "hades" and the corresponding Hebrew word "sheol" is vital to our understanding of what death is all about.

Looking up some of the verses that these two words were used in tell us that hades and sheol are simply referring to being dead in a grave. This state of being dead in a grave has nothing to do with how a person lived their lives, whether a believer devoted to doing the will of God or a God rejector.

Psalm 89:48

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [sheol]? Selah.

Psalm 16:10

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [sheol]; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 49:15

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave [sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Job 21:13

They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave [sheol].

But not only do people go to sheol, the grave, but so do animals.

Psalm 49:12,14

Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.

14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them....

Jesus Christ was similarly in the grave, sheol or hades.

Matthew 12:40

Acts 2:30-32

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell [hades], neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

The words hades and sheol have been translated both grave and hell, thus confusing the average Bible reader.

Thus hades and sheol are simply references to the state of being dead in a grave. ("Are the Dead Alive Now?" VP Wierwille)

Christians who have died before the return of Christ for the church, I Thessalonians 4:13-18 will rise from the dead, even as Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

The first and second resurrections, that is the resurrection of the just and the unjust that shall occur as described in the book of Revelation is when the rest of the dead shall be raised either to live forever in the presence of God, the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just. The unbelievers will be raised from the dead to receive the sentence of the second death. Their error will be made plain to them before they die the second death for they will come "face to face" with God and His son and will full realize that that their chosen error was inexcusable, Romans 1:19-20, and they shall reap the crop of the seeds they sowed. They did not want God or any of His blessings, so they do not get them, God is the author of life, they did not want God, they get death, the second death. Romans 6:23

That is enough for now.
Click to expand...
Good scriptures, but none really seem to address the OP. For instance in the resurrection of the unjust, do they all receive the same punishment? What is the point of the judgment day if all the unjust receive the same punishment? I guess my question is: is the punishment of outer hell or outer darkness eternal in time or eternal is scope but with the possibility of parole?
 
serpentdove

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RevTestament said:
...
Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [h]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [j]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Click to expand...

"Mt 5:19 shall be called least … shall be called great. Any violation of God’s law makes one least in the kingdom, which is equal to being outside the kingdom and under condemnation (cf. Gal. 3:10–12). The one who keeps God’s law is great, which is equal to being in the kingdom and in God’s salvation. In chap. 13, the parables of the tares (13:24–30) and the dragnet (13:47–50) indicate that in the visible, external kingdom of those who identify with God there will be true and false people (cf. 7:21–27). The “least” refers to those who will be judged and cast out (13:30, 41, 42, 49, 50) while the “great” shall be included and rewarded (v. 43)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1400). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

See:

Mormonism
 
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serpentdove

serpentdove

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Caino said:
Burning hell is the kind of thing men would conceive of, it's the kind of thing men do to one another...
Click to expand...

Christians don't seek retribution (Mt 5:43-48, Jud 1:9). Heaven is our home (Mt 19:29). :king: We are :mario: sojourners and exiles (1 Pe 2:11, ESV). :alien:

As a reminder Cano is number 29 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:
 
serpentdove

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RevTestament said:
...s the punishment of outer hell or outer darkness eternal in time or eternal is scope but with the possibility of parole?
Click to expand...


Repentance must occur on this side of the grave
poof_by_Davidgtza2.gif
(Ac 9:35, Jas 4:14). :listen: I recommend doing this prior to your heart being harden (Ex 9:12). There comes a time when you no longer can respond (Ge 6:3, Lk 12:20, 2 Thess 2:11-12). :burnlib:
 
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