elected4ever
New member
Do you understand what it means to be led by the Spirit?Not only have you done a
poor job of that, but a Christian has no relationship to the Law whatsoever. Sin
is transgression of the Law, and Paul also said...
Romans 4:15
"..for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there
violation."
Romans 5:13
"...for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is
no law."
Let's read Romans 6 in context...
vs 1...What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might
increase?
Paul has just spent the previous 5 chapters proving that ALL men are guilty of
sin (chapter 1); That they cannot use the Law to compare themselves against one
another, because the Law is what proves ALL men are guilty of sin (chapter 2);
That righteousness (freedom fron sin) comes by faith alone in Jesus Christ, and
not be the works of the Law (chapter 3); That God chose Abraham as the father of
all who believe God will give us this righteousness as a result of Christ's
sacrifice for sin so that we are now justified by faith, and not by works
(chapter 4); and even though all men are sinners because of the disobedience of
one man (Adam), yet all men may receive life because of the obedience of only
One Man (Jesus).
Romans 5 concludes: "And the Law came in that the transgression might increase;
but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, that, as sin reigned in
death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord."
Once again, God used the Law to prove ALL are sinners, and yet God's grace
through righteousness, that is imparted by faith, is greater than man's sin.
Therefore, the obvious question in Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase?
This is a rhetorical question, because Paul already knows the answer. But, it is
an obvious question based on his conclusion in chapter 5. (paraphrased) "Why not
keep sinning so that the grace of God (which is greater) will increase all the
more?"
Paul makes the answer abundantly clear:
vs. 2 "May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? "
Paul is emphatic! We have died to sin, and therefore it is impossible to live in
sin! Not some legalistic recommendation that you shouldn't be sinning, but a
clear statement of the impossibility of the event.
Paul goes on to explain why it is impossible for you to live in sin.
vs. 3 "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ
Jesus have been baptized into His death?"
Anyone who has come to Christ by faith, has been baptized into His body, and has
shared in His death (and resurrection).
vs. 4 "Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in
order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father,
so we too might walk in newness of life."
This "newness of life" is not a changed life, but an exchanged life. We give Him
our life, and He gives us His!
vs. 5 "For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death,
certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection"
When Jesus died to sin, so did we, and the life that Jesus has is the very life
of God, and so is ours!
vs. 6 "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of
sin might be done away with (destroyed), that we should no longer be slaves to
sin;"
Your "old self" is who you were in Adam, in sin, and dead (separated) from/to
God. Jesus crucified our old self with Him, to separate us from the body of sin,
so that we are no longer it's slave.
vs. 7 "for he who has died is freed from sin."
Have you died with Christ? If so, then you ARE free from sin.
vs. 8-9 "Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live
with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die
again; death no longer is master over Him."
Jesus died to sin, and those of us who died with Christ are also dead to sin;
However, we have also been made alive in Him, and death is no longer master over
us.
vs. 10-11 "For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the
life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to
sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus."
Why must we consider this? Because we need to renew our minds with that which is
true, as Paul has already proved we are indeed dead to sin, but alive to God in
Christ!
vs. 12-13 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you should
obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as
instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive
from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God."
So now, because you are "free from sin", it is ludicrous for you to allow sin to
reign in your body by obeying it, rather than obeying righteousness by faith in
Christ. Are you going to go back and undo all that Paul just explained from
chapter 1 until now, and obey the Law for righteousness and once again declare
yourself a sinner, thus obeying sin? Which is it? Are you going to go back and
present the members of your body to a system that proves you a sinner, or are
you going to present yourself to God as what you are... an instrument of
righteousness? Are you in sin or in Christ? Are you dead or alive?
vs. 14 "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but
under grace"
Sin has lost it's power in your life, not because you are obeying the Law, but
because you have died to it through the Christ's sacrifice, and you are now
alive in the Spirit, by grace through righteousness.
vs. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May
it never be!
Again, Paul asks a rhetorical question, and once again he already knows the
answer...
vs. 16 "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves
for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting
in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? "
If you are going to live according to the Law, then you will be proved a sinner,
and you will be a slave to sin, and the result is death. However, you can obey
the gospel of faith alone in Christ, which results in righteousness, and be it's
slave.
vs. 17-18 "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became
obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."
What is the form of teaching? It is the gospel!! The gospel of Jesus Christ sets
you free from sin, and makes you a slave of righteousness. You can no longer
become a slave of sin, if you are in Christ Jesus.
vs. 19 "I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For
just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness,
resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to
righteousness, resulting in sanctification."
Oh how the legalists love to pervert this verse
perhaps it is their weak flesh, but Paul is trying to make a point about who you
are going to serve; either the Law which results in proving your sin, or
righteousness through faith in Christ which results in your sanctification
(being set apart from death).
Here is where so many get confused, and why so many go astray from the truth.
Presenting your members is not behavior modification through obedience to the
Law, because if it is then Paul just contradicted his entire arguments from
chapter 1 until now. No, Paul is showing us that we need to present our members
to righteousness which comes by faith, rather than trying to gain God's favor
with them through keeping the Law. "Walking in the flesh" is not "sinning", it
is believing that God approves of you through the deeds of the flesh.
vs. 20 "For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to
righteousness."
When we were in Adam... dead, and separated from the life of God, there was
never a possibility of ever doing anything right. We were free from all
righteousness.
vs. 21 "Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which
you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death."
All your works, deeds, etc. were pointless, and now that you are in Christ you
can clearly see that your own efforts fell short of pleasing God, and it shames
you to think that you could actually gain his favor through the Law. The only
thing you could produce in Adam, was death.
vs. 22 "But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your
benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life."
Having concluded that in you there dwells no good thing, and that apart from
God's righteousness you are without hope, you have come to Christ by faith, and
have been set free from sin, where there is true benefit and true life!
vs. 23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life
in Christ Jesus our Lord. "
Which will you choose? To live under a system that can only produce death, or to
accept God's free gift of life?
You have a warped view of sanctification.
Sanctification: To be set apart from or unto
When we come to Christ our spirit is sanctified (set apart from death, and unto
life in God). We are sanctified!
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Our minds are being set apart from the wisdom of this world, unto the wisdom of
God.
We now have the capacity to know the things freely given to us by God. God
renews our minds with the truth concerning who He is, who we are in Him, and the
hope of glory.
Our minds will be redeemed (exchanged, made complete) when we are absent from
the body, and present with the lord. Our bodies will be redeemed at the
resurrection when the corruptable will put on incorruption.
In any case, our minds are being sanctified, but the confusion that you have is
that you equate sanctification with righteousness. Sanctification is not a
process of righteousness, but rather a process of renewing your mind to the
righteousness that you already possess.
Paul said that all things are permissable, but not all things are profitable.
When you renew your mind as grow in the grace of God, you will begin to do those
things that are more profitable, your behavior will change, and this is what is
know as sanctifying your body (setting it apart for it's intended use).
***************
:first: Sozo never ceases to amaze me with his clarity of presentation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
poor job of that, but a Christian has no relationship to the Law whatsoever. Sin
is transgression of the Law, and Paul also said...
Romans 4:15
"..for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there
violation."
Romans 5:13
"...for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is
no law."
Let's read Romans 6 in context...
vs 1...What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might
increase?
Paul has just spent the previous 5 chapters proving that ALL men are guilty of
sin (chapter 1); That they cannot use the Law to compare themselves against one
another, because the Law is what proves ALL men are guilty of sin (chapter 2);
That righteousness (freedom fron sin) comes by faith alone in Jesus Christ, and
not be the works of the Law (chapter 3); That God chose Abraham as the father of
all who believe God will give us this righteousness as a result of Christ's
sacrifice for sin so that we are now justified by faith, and not by works
(chapter 4); and even though all men are sinners because of the disobedience of
one man (Adam), yet all men may receive life because of the obedience of only
One Man (Jesus).
Romans 5 concludes: "And the Law came in that the transgression might increase;
but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, that, as sin reigned in
death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through
Jesus Christ our Lord."
Once again, God used the Law to prove ALL are sinners, and yet God's grace
through righteousness, that is imparted by faith, is greater than man's sin.
Therefore, the obvious question in Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase?
This is a rhetorical question, because Paul already knows the answer. But, it is
an obvious question based on his conclusion in chapter 5. (paraphrased) "Why not
keep sinning so that the grace of God (which is greater) will increase all the
more?"
Paul makes the answer abundantly clear:
vs. 2 "May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? "
Paul is emphatic! We have died to sin, and therefore it is impossible to live in
sin! Not some legalistic recommendation that you shouldn't be sinning, but a
clear statement of the impossibility of the event.
Paul goes on to explain why it is impossible for you to live in sin.
vs. 3 "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ
Jesus have been baptized into His death?"
Anyone who has come to Christ by faith, has been baptized into His body, and has
shared in His death (and resurrection).
vs. 4 "Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in
order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father,
so we too might walk in newness of life."
This "newness of life" is not a changed life, but an exchanged life. We give Him
our life, and He gives us His!
vs. 5 "For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death,
certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection"
When Jesus died to sin, so did we, and the life that Jesus has is the very life
of God, and so is ours!
vs. 6 "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of
sin might be done away with (destroyed), that we should no longer be slaves to
sin;"
Your "old self" is who you were in Adam, in sin, and dead (separated) from/to
God. Jesus crucified our old self with Him, to separate us from the body of sin,
so that we are no longer it's slave.
vs. 7 "for he who has died is freed from sin."
Have you died with Christ? If so, then you ARE free from sin.
vs. 8-9 "Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live
with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die
again; death no longer is master over Him."
Jesus died to sin, and those of us who died with Christ are also dead to sin;
However, we have also been made alive in Him, and death is no longer master over
us.
vs. 10-11 "For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the
life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to
sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus."
Why must we consider this? Because we need to renew our minds with that which is
true, as Paul has already proved we are indeed dead to sin, but alive to God in
Christ!
vs. 12-13 "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you should
obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as
instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive
from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God."
So now, because you are "free from sin", it is ludicrous for you to allow sin to
reign in your body by obeying it, rather than obeying righteousness by faith in
Christ. Are you going to go back and undo all that Paul just explained from
chapter 1 until now, and obey the Law for righteousness and once again declare
yourself a sinner, thus obeying sin? Which is it? Are you going to go back and
present the members of your body to a system that proves you a sinner, or are
you going to present yourself to God as what you are... an instrument of
righteousness? Are you in sin or in Christ? Are you dead or alive?
vs. 14 "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but
under grace"
Sin has lost it's power in your life, not because you are obeying the Law, but
because you have died to it through the Christ's sacrifice, and you are now
alive in the Spirit, by grace through righteousness.
vs. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May
it never be!
Again, Paul asks a rhetorical question, and once again he already knows the
answer...
vs. 16 "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves
for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting
in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? "
If you are going to live according to the Law, then you will be proved a sinner,
and you will be a slave to sin, and the result is death. However, you can obey
the gospel of faith alone in Christ, which results in righteousness, and be it's
slave.
vs. 17-18 "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became
obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."
What is the form of teaching? It is the gospel!! The gospel of Jesus Christ sets
you free from sin, and makes you a slave of righteousness. You can no longer
become a slave of sin, if you are in Christ Jesus.
vs. 19 "I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For
just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness,
resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to
righteousness, resulting in sanctification."
Oh how the legalists love to pervert this verse
perhaps it is their weak flesh, but Paul is trying to make a point about who you
are going to serve; either the Law which results in proving your sin, or
righteousness through faith in Christ which results in your sanctification
(being set apart from death).
Here is where so many get confused, and why so many go astray from the truth.
Presenting your members is not behavior modification through obedience to the
Law, because if it is then Paul just contradicted his entire arguments from
chapter 1 until now. No, Paul is showing us that we need to present our members
to righteousness which comes by faith, rather than trying to gain God's favor
with them through keeping the Law. "Walking in the flesh" is not "sinning", it
is believing that God approves of you through the deeds of the flesh.
vs. 20 "For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to
righteousness."
When we were in Adam... dead, and separated from the life of God, there was
never a possibility of ever doing anything right. We were free from all
righteousness.
vs. 21 "Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which
you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death."
All your works, deeds, etc. were pointless, and now that you are in Christ you
can clearly see that your own efforts fell short of pleasing God, and it shames
you to think that you could actually gain his favor through the Law. The only
thing you could produce in Adam, was death.
vs. 22 "But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your
benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life."
Having concluded that in you there dwells no good thing, and that apart from
God's righteousness you are without hope, you have come to Christ by faith, and
have been set free from sin, where there is true benefit and true life!
vs. 23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life
in Christ Jesus our Lord. "
Which will you choose? To live under a system that can only produce death, or to
accept God's free gift of life?
You have a warped view of sanctification.
Sanctification: To be set apart from or unto
When we come to Christ our spirit is sanctified (set apart from death, and unto
life in God). We are sanctified!
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Our minds are being set apart from the wisdom of this world, unto the wisdom of
God.
We now have the capacity to know the things freely given to us by God. God
renews our minds with the truth concerning who He is, who we are in Him, and the
hope of glory.
Our minds will be redeemed (exchanged, made complete) when we are absent from
the body, and present with the lord. Our bodies will be redeemed at the
resurrection when the corruptable will put on incorruption.
In any case, our minds are being sanctified, but the confusion that you have is
that you equate sanctification with righteousness. Sanctification is not a
process of righteousness, but rather a process of renewing your mind to the
righteousness that you already possess.
Paul said that all things are permissable, but not all things are profitable.
When you renew your mind as grow in the grace of God, you will begin to do those
things that are more profitable, your behavior will change, and this is what is
know as sanctifying your body (setting it apart for it's intended use).
***************
:first: Sozo never ceases to amaze me with his clarity of presentation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
