elected4ever
New member
Pettrix
As a GRACE BELIEVER, they have ALREADY BEEN forgiven when they trusted in Christ, ALL SINS, past, present and future are forgiven. The believer is SEALED in the Holy Spirit and has eternal security because of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. One does not need to continually as for forgiveness as they have been ALREADY forgiven.
Elohiym -
All you "short accounts" people really need to RIGHTLY DIVIDE or you will end up in complete confusion, as clearly can be seen here by your silly posts.
It is interesting to observe that the "short accounts" people, they invariably rush to 1 John 1:9 for a major proof-text. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I would like to suggest some things that we MUST note if we are to UNDERSTAND this important verse as God meant it to be understood when He placed it in His Word.
First, John is an apostle of the Circumcision writing to Jews as Jews and not to the Body of Christ. This is plain from Galatians Two, where, having just come to recognize the new and unique apostleship of Paul and Paul's new and different message of Grace, he, with Peter and James, agrees to confine his ministry to the Jews while the new apostle, Paul, undertakes a new and unprophesied worldwide ministry to Gentiles.
Second, these Jews that John was addressing would know exactly what John was talking about when he conditioned forgiveness and cleansing on the confession (acknowledgment) of sins. They had a purification rite--the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins--and by the act of submitting to this "washing" ritual, they were admitting their sinnership, acknowledging their sins. Without speaking a word, they were confessing their unworthiness to enter Messiah's Kingdom of Righteousness...the frequently predicted and long awaited reign of Heaven on earth.
Third, every Scripture has a context, and 1 John 1:9 is no exception. "A verse without a context is a pretext." It is widely conceded that the book as a whole, and chapter one in particular, is a refutation of incipient gnosticism with its denial of the existence of the sin nature and the reality of personal sins and their consequent need of forgiveness. But the immediate context of verse 9 is the section incorporating verses 7 through 10. In verse seven, the Jewish believer commits sins but continues to walk in the light because he continues to be cleansed by the blood of God's Son. This believer, though he continues to sin, does not walk in darkness, nor is his fellowship broken. A good concordance will reveal that darkness is always associated with the unsaved, never the saved. A believer cannot walk in darkness, nor can his access to the Father be interrupted becuase he has his access on the grounds of God's Grace and not human merit (Romans 5:1-2). Also, the contrast in this passage is not between a believer who names his sins mentally or orally in "confession" to God and one who does not. The contrast is between the unbeliever who denies having sin (singular, the sin nature) and committing sins (plural, individual acts resulting from the fallen Adamic nature) and the Jewish believer who, by submitting to the Jewish purification ritual--water baptism--has acknowledged (confessed) his sinnership with its resulting sins.
Fourth, no one could possibly cite ALL of his sins to God...no one ever has. Even the earnest attempt to do so would leave you and me without time to sleep, eat, or brush our teeth. And even if it were possible to enumerate ALL of them, we would still have our sinful natures militantly opposed to God and His Word (Romans 8:7).What would confession do for that? Romans shows us that the REAL problem is Sin, the nature, not sin, the act. Monks hid under their beds rather than take a turn hearing Martin Luther's confession, for, while they finished reciting their own sins in five minutes--or thought they did!--this sensitive monk kept on for an hour and a half and then was back in twenty minutes with more that he had forgotten. Most "short accounters" admit the inability to confess all and then resort to shameless evasion instead of sound exposition to cover the obvious. There are sins of omission, sins that we forget that we committed, sins of ignorance, and sins of stubbornness...sins that we go to our graves refusing to admit are sins. The problems with this view are legion, and they are immense!
Fifth, if John really taught short accounts in this passage, and if this Circumcision apostle had the Body of Christ in mind, why aren't the Pauline Epistles full of instruction about "confessing" one's sins in order to procure forgiveness and "restore fellowship"? Instead, we read, "...having forgiven you all offenses" (Colossians 2:13 lit.). Tomorrow's sins are included for they, along with our past sins, were still future when our Lord died for them and, hence, are no harder for God to forgive.
Now, the CRUNCHER! This is what Elohiym spouts. Won't teaching TOTAL FORGIVENESS instead of short accounts encourage sin on the part of the believer? On the contrary! The divine principle is that the one who has been forgiven much, LOVES MUCH (Luke 7:36-50). And the question that needs to be asked is, are you and I, as believers, such ingrates that the infinite love and total Grace of God displayed at Calvary cannot move us to love our Savior deeply and serve Him faithfully? Now that I have a new nature, am indwelt by the very Holy Spirit of God, and have the divine dynamic of the Word of God to energize me: AM I SO POORLY EQUIPPED THAT I CANNOT PRESENT MYSELF TO GOD AS ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, but must continue to present my members as instruments of unrighteousness to Sin? (Romans 6:13) HEAVEN FORBID! The Pauline Epistles call each of us to a higher life than that!
But if we shouldn't invite God into our spiritual laundromats by naming our sins to Him in prayer, WHAT SHOULD WE DO when we are conscious of having sinned? The answer is there in every one of the Epistles of God and Paul. They begin with a foundation of the great Positional Truths that teach us our perfectly secure status beyond the reach of Sin and of Law. THEN comes the appeal to build my life upon this foundation in a God-honoring manner. What God has done for me is always the motivation for what I am to do for Him. "If Jesus Christ be God, and died for me, then no sacrifice can be too great for me to make for Him!"
As a GRACE BELIEVER, they have ALREADY BEEN forgiven when they trusted in Christ, ALL SINS, past, present and future are forgiven. The believer is SEALED in the Holy Spirit and has eternal security because of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. One does not need to continually as for forgiveness as they have been ALREADY forgiven.
Elohiym -
All you "short accounts" people really need to RIGHTLY DIVIDE or you will end up in complete confusion, as clearly can be seen here by your silly posts.
It is interesting to observe that the "short accounts" people, they invariably rush to 1 John 1:9 for a major proof-text. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I would like to suggest some things that we MUST note if we are to UNDERSTAND this important verse as God meant it to be understood when He placed it in His Word.
First, John is an apostle of the Circumcision writing to Jews as Jews and not to the Body of Christ. This is plain from Galatians Two, where, having just come to recognize the new and unique apostleship of Paul and Paul's new and different message of Grace, he, with Peter and James, agrees to confine his ministry to the Jews while the new apostle, Paul, undertakes a new and unprophesied worldwide ministry to Gentiles.
Second, these Jews that John was addressing would know exactly what John was talking about when he conditioned forgiveness and cleansing on the confession (acknowledgment) of sins. They had a purification rite--the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins--and by the act of submitting to this "washing" ritual, they were admitting their sinnership, acknowledging their sins. Without speaking a word, they were confessing their unworthiness to enter Messiah's Kingdom of Righteousness...the frequently predicted and long awaited reign of Heaven on earth.
Third, every Scripture has a context, and 1 John 1:9 is no exception. "A verse without a context is a pretext." It is widely conceded that the book as a whole, and chapter one in particular, is a refutation of incipient gnosticism with its denial of the existence of the sin nature and the reality of personal sins and their consequent need of forgiveness. But the immediate context of verse 9 is the section incorporating verses 7 through 10. In verse seven, the Jewish believer commits sins but continues to walk in the light because he continues to be cleansed by the blood of God's Son. This believer, though he continues to sin, does not walk in darkness, nor is his fellowship broken. A good concordance will reveal that darkness is always associated with the unsaved, never the saved. A believer cannot walk in darkness, nor can his access to the Father be interrupted becuase he has his access on the grounds of God's Grace and not human merit (Romans 5:1-2). Also, the contrast in this passage is not between a believer who names his sins mentally or orally in "confession" to God and one who does not. The contrast is between the unbeliever who denies having sin (singular, the sin nature) and committing sins (plural, individual acts resulting from the fallen Adamic nature) and the Jewish believer who, by submitting to the Jewish purification ritual--water baptism--has acknowledged (confessed) his sinnership with its resulting sins.
Fourth, no one could possibly cite ALL of his sins to God...no one ever has. Even the earnest attempt to do so would leave you and me without time to sleep, eat, or brush our teeth. And even if it were possible to enumerate ALL of them, we would still have our sinful natures militantly opposed to God and His Word (Romans 8:7).What would confession do for that? Romans shows us that the REAL problem is Sin, the nature, not sin, the act. Monks hid under their beds rather than take a turn hearing Martin Luther's confession, for, while they finished reciting their own sins in five minutes--or thought they did!--this sensitive monk kept on for an hour and a half and then was back in twenty minutes with more that he had forgotten. Most "short accounters" admit the inability to confess all and then resort to shameless evasion instead of sound exposition to cover the obvious. There are sins of omission, sins that we forget that we committed, sins of ignorance, and sins of stubbornness...sins that we go to our graves refusing to admit are sins. The problems with this view are legion, and they are immense!
Fifth, if John really taught short accounts in this passage, and if this Circumcision apostle had the Body of Christ in mind, why aren't the Pauline Epistles full of instruction about "confessing" one's sins in order to procure forgiveness and "restore fellowship"? Instead, we read, "...having forgiven you all offenses" (Colossians 2:13 lit.). Tomorrow's sins are included for they, along with our past sins, were still future when our Lord died for them and, hence, are no harder for God to forgive.
Now, the CRUNCHER! This is what Elohiym spouts. Won't teaching TOTAL FORGIVENESS instead of short accounts encourage sin on the part of the believer? On the contrary! The divine principle is that the one who has been forgiven much, LOVES MUCH (Luke 7:36-50). And the question that needs to be asked is, are you and I, as believers, such ingrates that the infinite love and total Grace of God displayed at Calvary cannot move us to love our Savior deeply and serve Him faithfully? Now that I have a new nature, am indwelt by the very Holy Spirit of God, and have the divine dynamic of the Word of God to energize me: AM I SO POORLY EQUIPPED THAT I CANNOT PRESENT MYSELF TO GOD AS ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, but must continue to present my members as instruments of unrighteousness to Sin? (Romans 6:13) HEAVEN FORBID! The Pauline Epistles call each of us to a higher life than that!
But if we shouldn't invite God into our spiritual laundromats by naming our sins to Him in prayer, WHAT SHOULD WE DO when we are conscious of having sinned? The answer is there in every one of the Epistles of God and Paul. They begin with a foundation of the great Positional Truths that teach us our perfectly secure status beyond the reach of Sin and of Law. THEN comes the appeal to build my life upon this foundation in a God-honoring manner. What God has done for me is always the motivation for what I am to do for Him. "If Jesus Christ be God, and died for me, then no sacrifice can be too great for me to make for Him!"
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