ECT Eternal Promises of scripture

[Totton Linnet]

So can one be outside of the church but still in Christ? Were Simeon and Anna, for example, outside of the church? If we are children of the free and not the bondwoman, does that not simply validate the new covenant and - as Paul said - confirm that the division is flesh and spirit? There is no Jew and Gentile in Christ. Or what were Jews (all the disciples and most of the apostles) doing as builders of a church their kinsman after the flesh would (nor could) never be a part of?

But has God only promised the church? are there promises for anyone who will "give one of these little ones so much as a cup of water"?

That may seem like scratching, but I do not believe the righteous sheep spoken about at the judgement can possibly be the church but they receive an inheritance. And what of the Jews themselves? they have promises.

The promise and the inheritance may not match those which belong to the church but they are substantial.

Blessed are the pure in heart for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.

I truly believe matters concerning the judgement to come needs revision.

 

[nikolai_42]

The fruit of the Spirit is to be our life. Sorry, manikins can't make the cut, incapable of relationship.

You can have the last word.

What is the only reason we are even able to obey this sort of command :

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Colossians 3:5

That chapter is chock full of commands to bring forth fruit, but prefaced with this :

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Colossians 3:3-4

And this injunction seems pretty clear - we are putting on something that is not (in any sense) naturally us :

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Colossians 3:10

Reminds me of Joshua the High Priest....

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.
Zechariah 3:1-5

What follows is certainly a command to be obedient and faithful in his calling, but what is also clear is that the foundation of the whole thing - the only way any of that faithfulness and obedience was possible - was because of what the Lord did FIRST.

So going back to one of the verses referenced (indirectly?) :

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13

And what is the result of that?

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:16

Why would men glorify God for works WE do? Because they are really not our works - they are His. They point to Him. They are of Him. They are only possible because of Him and the work He does in us.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
I Cor 3:11

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 3:20-21

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20-21

 

[nikolai_42]

But has God only promised the church? are there promises for anyone who will "give one of these little ones so much as a cup of water"?

There are rewards and there are eternal rewards. Is it possible that someone who feeds the hungry will get a reward? Sure. I think it's debatable, but anyone who feeds the hungry might get a reward - but I don't see evidence of an eternal reward. And the promises are (as far as I can tell) in Christ. If you give a prophet a glass of water in Christ's name (that's critical) then you will not fail to receive a prophet's reward. I see that as something that someone not in Christ will not be able to fulfill.

That may seem like scratching, but I do not believe the righteous sheep spoken about at the judgement can possibly be the church but they receive an inheritance. And what of the Jews themselves? they have promises.

I don't see how the righteous sheep can be righteous outside of Christ (call them the church or whatever you want). If this is possible, then Christ's sacrifice wasn't absolutely essential. I have to disagree here. Unless I'm missing what you are after.

The Jews have national promises. Yes. But when I see that the promise was to Abraham and to his seed (singular), I can't see it any other way than in Christ. Will the Jews be inheritors of glory? Sure...but only in Christ. Will they necessarily be brought there by evangelism as we have understood it? I can't say...possibly not. But that still doesn't mean the promise is outside of Christ.

The promise and the inheritance may not match those which belong to the church but they are substantial.

Blessed are the pure in heart for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.

I truly believe matters concerning the judgement to come needs revision.

Can someone conform to what Christ "blessed" in the Beatitudes outside of Him?

 

[Cross Reference]

What is the only reason we are even able to obey this sort of command :

It is a testimony of our love to Him; a proving of sorts as opposed to having the devil tempt us that will reveal it and the reasons why there may be a lack we must deal with. You might consider the reason for Job's testing in this.

 

[nikolai_42]

It is a testimony of our love to Him; a proving of sorts as opposed to having the devil tempt us that will reveal it and the reasons why there may be a lack we must deal with. You might consider the reason for Job's testing in this.

Herein is love...not that we loved God but that He loved us...

 

[Cross Reference]

Herein is love...not that we loved God but that He loved us...

Lets not nit-pick, please.

Deut 6:4,5 and Matt 22:37

 

[nikolai_42]

Lets not nit-pick, please.

Deut 6:4,5 and Matt 22:37

Not nit-picking...that's the whole point!

 

[Cross Reference]

Not nit-picking...that's the whole point!

Yeah but, yu have track record.

 

[Totton Linnet]

There are rewards and there are eternal rewards. Is it possible that someone who feeds the hungry will get a reward? Sure. I think it's debatable, but anyone who feeds the hungry might get a reward - but I don't see evidence of an eternal reward. And the promises are (as far as I can tell) in Christ. If you give a prophet a glass of water in Christ's name (that's critical) then you will not fail to receive a prophet's reward. I see that as something that someone not in Christ will not be able to fulfill.



I don't see how the righteous sheep can be righteous outside of Christ (call them the church or whatever you want). If this is possible, then Christ's sacrifice wasn't absolutely essential. I have to disagree here. Unless I'm missing what you are after.

The Jews have national promises. Yes. But when I see that the promise was to Abraham and to his seed (singular), I can't see it any other way than in Christ. Will the Jews be inheritors of glory? Sure...but only in Christ. Will they necessarily be brought there by evangelism as we have understood it? I can't say...possibly not. But that still doesn't mean the promise is outside of Christ.



Can someone conform to what Christ "blessed" in the Beatitudes outside of Him?

Not outside Christ but outside the church....

Yes I believe the church has gotten the great matter of the last judgement wrong since very early on. It's a bold thing to say, I like to think that I am strictly orthodox.

If this present time is made up of just the saved and the damned then a great many things do not make sense in scripture.

Why would we be a city set upon a hill?

Once again if you believe in the Millennial reign [and I do] then your view on the last judgement must change. For we see that the second and last or general resurrection takes place after the church has been raptured, "so shall we ever be with the Lord" and after we have reigned with Him for a thousand years. In view of that there is no way the last judgement which follows the general resurrection can involve the church. Except that He brings us with Him to judge and the world will be judged by us according to Paul.

There are three distinct groups at that judgement. There are the sheep, the goats and then there is that group who the Lord addresses as "these the least of My brethren" that's us, that's the church and Paul's teaching comes into line with it...they [the sheep and the goats] are judged by how they did or did not minister to God's people, thus we will judge the world.