God is Sovereign! What did she say?

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God is sovereign, whether you want to believe it or not. I absolutely hold to this. What I will not hold to is the warped idea that people have over the term sovereign. I always give this scenario of what I know to be true of God’s real sovereignty.

It’s like a father who is sovereign over his house. He may declare that he will have a manicured lawn and the way he chooses to go about it, is to declare that his children take part in it. So one of his sons goes out to do that which his father has told him to do which is mow the lawn. Instead, the son goofs off and decides to climb the tree first and ends up falling and breaking his arm. This does not mean the father is somehow now not sovereign and thinking, “Well, that’s it. I can no longer remain sovereign. I do not have the ability in any other way to have a manicured lawn.” Absolutely not! The father would probably laugh if anyone even tried to suggest this. His attitude would probably be, “Wanna bet?” There are many other ways he could go about this. Have another child mow the lawn. Hire somebody to mow the lawn. If a mere mortal man could keep his plan that He decreed, how much more an Almighty God, whose ability to bring about what He decrees, absolutely **will be** the outcome. And for us to even suggest otherwise, that this is now not possible because man’s sin got in the way of how He had originally planned, How much more does He say, “Wanna bet!?” I serve a God and have all confidence in Him that He is powerful enough to get the results He wants without having to predestine it before the foundation of the world. That is real power. To say that this is not possible for Him is limiting His power.
 
God is sovereign, whether you want to believe it or not. I absolutely hold to this. What I will not hold to is the warped idea that people have over the term sovereign. I always give this scenario of what I know to be true of God’s real sovereignty.

It’s like a father who is sovereign over his house. He may declare that he will have a manicured lawn and the way he chooses to go about it, is to declare that his children take part in it. So one of his sons goes out to do that which his father has told him to do which is mow the lawn. Instead, the son goofs off and decides to climb the tree first and ends up falling and breaking his arm. This does not mean the father is somehow now not sovereign and thinking, “Well, that’s it. I can no longer remain sovereign. I do not have the ability in any other way to have a manicured lawn.” Absolutely not! The father would probably laugh if anyone even tried to suggest this. His attitude would probably be, “Wanna bet?” There are many other ways he could go about this. Have another child mow the lawn. Hire somebody to mow the lawn. If a mere mortal man could keep his plan that He decreed, how much more an Almighty God, whose ability to bring about what He decrees, absolutely **will be** the outcome. And for us to even suggest otherwise, that this is now not possible because man’s sin got in the way of how He had originally planned, How much more does He say, “Wanna bet!?” I serve a God and have all confidence in Him that He is powerful enough to get the results He wants without having to predestine it before the foundation of the world. That is real power. To say that this is not possible for Him is limiting His power.
When the earth was created did God want to destroy the earth and only save eight people on the ark?

Are you implying that the "results" in the 'Garden' were what God wanted?
 

JudgeRightly

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When the earth was created did God want to destroy the earth and only save eight people on the ark?

No. He didn't even know who Noah was, let alone that there would be 8 people that He would save. He knew that, should He have to destroy the world with water, He would have to save at least two, a man and a woman, and better to have a family of 8, father, mother, 3 sons and their wives, respectively, to kickstart the repopulation of the earth.

Are you implying that the "results" in the 'Garden' were what God wanted?

No, simply that God, recognizing that love must be freely given,had to offer a way out for His creation. He could not imprison man in the garden, for then man would grow to resent God, and could never truly love God. God also knew that should His creation take the way out, that eventually, it would lead to death.

God is a God who risks, but does so wisely.
 

ttruscott

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GOD's sovereignty serves HIS loving, righteous and just nature. That is, HE cannot do anything that is NOT loving, righteous and just just because HE can because HE is sovereign! Sovereignty means that if HE wants to express HIS holiness into HIS creation HE can and will - HE is sovereign....but sovereignty does not give HIM the power to express what HE is not or which HE abhors!
 

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GOD's sovereignty serves HIS loving, righteous and just nature. That is, HE cannot do anything that is NOT loving, righteous and just just because HE can because HE is sovereign! Sovereignty means that if HE wants to express HIS holiness into HIS creation HE can and will - HE is sovereign....but sovereignty does not give HIM the power to express what HE is not or which HE abhors!
You're using a false definition of "sovereign". So did Calvin and so do Calvinists.
 
No. He didn't even know who Noah was, let alone that there would be 8 people that He would save. He knew that, should He have to destroy the world with water, He would have to save at least two, a man and a woman, and better to have a family of 8, father, mother, 3 sons and their wives, respectively, to kickstart the repopulation of the earth.



No, simply that God, recognizing that love must be freely given,had to offer a way out for His creation. He could not imprison man in the garden, for then man would grow to resent God, and could never truly love God. God also knew that should His creation take the way out, that eventually, it would lead to death.

God is a God who risks, but does so wisely.
Agreed, however the OP;
...He is powerful enough to get the results He wants...
Can He save all men, does He want to?

Will He save all men?

It would be no risk if God knew He would get what He wanted; risk involves the possibility of losing. Some of Adams race will be lost. Is God's power limited?
 

JudgeRightly

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Agreed, however the OP;

Can He save all men, does He want to?

He has provided salvation to all men. God is not willing that any should perish.

Will He save all men?

Unfortunately, God cannot justly save someone who does not want to be saved. God cannot force men to love Him, because then it wouldn't be love.

It would be no risk if God knew He would get what He wanted; risk involves the possibility of losing. Some of Adams race will be lost. Is God's power limited?

https://opentheism.org/verses has your answer.
 
He has provided salvation to all men. God is not willing that any should perish.



Unfortunately, God cannot justly save someone who does not want to be saved. God cannot force men to love Him, because then it wouldn't be love.



https://opentheism.org/verses has your answer

Your link says:
33 - God Says What He Wants to Do, But Can’t or Doesn’t Do.

So accordingly, you disagree with the OP.
He is powerful enough to get the results He wants
 

ttruscott

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He has provided salvation to all men. God is not willing that any should perish.
INDEED!

But the logistics of that provision and its implementation would seem to need more scrutiny...

The doctrine of our being created on earth as sinners liable to the judgement upon sinners of suffering and death obviously contradicts the loving character of GOD who is righteous and just who cannot create evil and will not create evil people as outside of HIS desire all be saved.

The inconsistencies of our supposed creation on earth in Adam are obvious in the millions of pages written to refute this interpretation of the face value of scripture that
- GOD can indeed create evil people or
- our coming into existence as Adam's heir to his suffering and judgment is not a creation, or
- it is claimed that there is a good solid reason for HIM to create HIS Bride as corrupt and unclean, needing redemption and salvation from what they were created as before they can inhabit HIS promise of salvation yet the good within this contention is totally ephemeral in every way except it allows one to rest in the blasphemous created in Adam doctrine...
- contrary to the scriptures that tell us that we are created upright and able to fulfill HIS purpose for our creation.
 
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