There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Has the Church Replaced Israel ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
We know that the Church is Israel by the testimony of the Apostle Paul, who was the Apostle to the Gentiles, and a Minister of the New Testament/Covenant Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
2 Cor 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
The Same New Covenant as here Jer 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
And notice his Testimony here Acts 28:20
For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
His New Covenant Ministry as the Apostle of the Gentiles is the Hope of Israel. Thats the Mystery the jews despised him for, and ever persecuted him !
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
2 Cor 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
The Same New Covenant as here Jer 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
And notice his Testimony here Acts 28:20
For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
His New Covenant Ministry as the Apostle of the Gentiles is the Hope of Israel. Thats the Mystery the jews despised him for, and ever persecuted him !
beloved57
Well-known member
That Paul understood the Church, the Body of Christ which included Gentiles who believed in Christ as well as jews, is Israel, we look at a sermon he preached in Acts 13:23,32-35
23 From this man’s seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a[a] Savior—Jesus—
Now Paul at that time was speaking in a jewish synagogue, but notice that some Gentiles heard this message, that God raised up for Israel a Saviour, Jesus, who is going to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21 thats a promise. Notice again in that same sermon Pauls words again about God raising up Jesus
32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to [i]corruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure [j]mercies of David.’
35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm:
‘You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’
Now notice starting at Vs 42 of the same chapter at the conclusion of that sermon, some Gentiles came to Paul, no doubt moved by the Spirit of God and said:
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
The Gentiles wanted to hear the same Gospel Message preached to them as it was preached to the jews, and how Jesus was raised according to promise, a Gospel promise, a Saviour to Israel. See that was the Mystery unfolding, that the Gentiles were joint heirs with jews of the same Gospel promises to Israel Eph 3:1-6
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel
The Gospel promise spoken of back in Acts 13:23 on how Jesus was raised a Saviour to Israel ! Gentiles were included in that Israel, with Christ as their head, who was raised from the dead.
This is the Hope of Israel Paul was in chains for Acts 28:20
For this reason therefore I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.”
23 From this man’s seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a[a] Savior—Jesus—
Now Paul at that time was speaking in a jewish synagogue, but notice that some Gentiles heard this message, that God raised up for Israel a Saviour, Jesus, who is going to save His People from their sins Matt 1:21 thats a promise. Notice again in that same sermon Pauls words again about God raising up Jesus
32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’
34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to [i]corruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure [j]mercies of David.’
35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm:
‘You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’
Now notice starting at Vs 42 of the same chapter at the conclusion of that sermon, some Gentiles came to Paul, no doubt moved by the Spirit of God and said:
42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
The Gentiles wanted to hear the same Gospel Message preached to them as it was preached to the jews, and how Jesus was raised according to promise, a Gospel promise, a Saviour to Israel. See that was the Mystery unfolding, that the Gentiles were joint heirs with jews of the same Gospel promises to Israel Eph 3:1-6
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel
The Gospel promise spoken of back in Acts 13:23 on how Jesus was raised a Saviour to Israel ! Gentiles were included in that Israel, with Christ as their head, who was raised from the dead.
This is the Hope of Israel Paul was in chains for Acts 28:20
For this reason therefore I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.”
beloved57
Well-known member
This is the Hope of Israel Paul was in chains for Acts 28:20
For this reason therefore I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.”
Now this Hope of Israel of which Paul was in chain, the jews for the most part rejected it, for it wasnt what they thought, and it concerned the Lord Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God Acts 20:23
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Some jews believed Paul Vs 24,25-27
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Then Paul reminded them that God through Isaiah and the Holy Ghost had foretold this judgment upon the jews in their rejection of the the Messiah and His Kingdom and Salvation:
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mind you Paul is talking about " The Hope of Israel" Acts 28:20,
Then he says, that God was now sending this same message that the majority of the jews rejected regarding the Hope of Israel, and that they will hear it Vs 28-31
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
This proves that the Gentiles had part in the Hope of Israel, the Church !
For this reason therefore I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.”
Now this Hope of Israel of which Paul was in chain, the jews for the most part rejected it, for it wasnt what they thought, and it concerned the Lord Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God Acts 20:23
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Some jews believed Paul Vs 24,25-27
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Then Paul reminded them that God through Isaiah and the Holy Ghost had foretold this judgment upon the jews in their rejection of the the Messiah and His Kingdom and Salvation:
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mind you Paul is talking about " The Hope of Israel" Acts 28:20,
Then he says, that God was now sending this same message that the majority of the jews rejected regarding the Hope of Israel, and that they will hear it Vs 28-31
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
This proves that the Gentiles had part in the Hope of Israel, the Church !
Wake up! The Church is not Israel. Show scripture specifically stating that the Church is Israel.
Which church?
One of them is Israel. The other is not.
B57 commits the fallacy of begging the question because his beliefs won't let him see both of them, only one.
The church/body of Christ is not the nation/Israel, but they are the believers in Christ/Israel.
The unbelieving Jews have, in effect, cast themselves out of Israel.
A good presage of this circumstance are the two sons of Isaac...Jacob and Esau.
The church/body of Christ would be Jacob's off-spring and the unbelieving Jews would be Esau's off-spring.
But all of them came from Abraham.
Not a single line of this comports with what Scripture says.
1) Israel is called a congregation. This congregation is not the same as the congregation of the believers in the Body of Christ.
The Body of Christ are those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ as lord and Savior. Israel was to follow the commandments of Christ, her Messiah and King.
Christ is not Israel.
2) God is the one who has cut off unbelieving Israel, not they themselves.
3) Jacob (aka Israel) and Esau (aka Edom) have very little, if anything, to do with the Body of Christ.
4) Wrong. First of all, Israel is called Israel because God gave Jacob, the father of the nation, a new name, "Israel." The nation of Israel is directly descended from him, and are thus called "Israel," just as "Edom" the nation is called that because Esau's nickname was Edom, because Edom means red. To see the significance of that, go read Genesis.
Second, Paul doesn't describe the relationship between the Body of Christ and Israel as "Jacob and Esau," but he refers to Isaac and Ishmael, the sons of Abraham, and for a different reason that would take an entire Bible study to explain.
Abraham is the father of MANY NATIONS, not just the grandfather of Israel (Jacob).