ECT Help for the Theologically Homeless

Brother Vinny

Active member
Hello, all.

As with all things here, this will likely evolve into a debate (and maybe that's a good thing), but it is not my primary intention here. Without ado: I am looking for a home.

I don't have time (nor does Knight have the bandwidth, I think) to chronicle my spiritual wanderings within (and sometimes without) the scope of orthodox Christianity. I'm 45, have been a believer for 22 years, and I'm frustrated, and feeling not a little despair because a core presupposition of the gospel is that Christ changes the believer and my experience with other believers (and with myself) is that people do not change--that they continue to act in ways which produce positive stimuli even though they know and believe that they should do and say things more in keeping with the character of Christ.

I'm not looking for a church home, per se; I'm sporadically attending one I believe to be biblically-based, and will continue doing so unless I am convinced it is in grave error.

I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Hello, all.

As with all things here, this will likely evolve into a debate (and maybe that's a good thing), but it is not my primary intention here. Without ado: I am looking for a home.

I don't have time (nor does Knight have the bandwidth, I think) to chronicle my spiritual wanderings within (and sometimes without) the scope of orthodox Christianity. I'm 45, have been a believer for 22 years, and I'm frustrated, and feeling not a little despair because a core presupposition of the gospel is that Christ changes the believer and my experience with other believers (and with myself) is that people do not change--that they continue to act in ways which produce positive stimuli even though they know and believe that they should do and say things more in keeping with the character of Christ.

I'm not looking for a church home, per se; I'm sporadically attending one I believe to be biblically-based, and will continue doing so unless I am convinced it is in grave error.

I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?

i'm not trying to toot horns but Mid Acts Dispensation or MAD members here is where it's at. where it's at is in Paul's epistles, which I began to study and saw some things my churches never mention in depth; long before i heard of TOL or MAD. I came here telling people to read Paul's letters, i found out here that I was on the right path. it's nothing MAD does except preach and teach Romans thru Philemon, although i include the entire NT and Old.

i can say that after understanding completely what Paul was told FROM CHRIST concerning grace, gentiles and the gospel of our Salvation -

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV and of course 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -

and so much more - and after understanding more and more, praise GOD, the OT and M,M,L and J made much more sense and all tied together for me spritually and mentally. you are in the right place - watch posts by :

Angel4truth
heir
john w
Tambora
steko
STP
musterion
glorydayz
grosnick
Danoh
Rightdivider
DanP


and others i am forgetting, many many others - :patrol: btw, i'm 46 and kinda the same long story - and my location has been homeless since day 1 here. LOL - peace
 
Last edited:

Interplanner

Well-known member
This person was looking for answers about consistency not a theology. many churches, groups, pastors try to get consistency without the right cause for that effect. They need to lift up Christ and his Gospel. That is what draws men to him and purifies them.

When God is made out to be an alternative happiness or a provider of conveniences, there is no respect for him, there is no awe, there is bowing to him, there is no honor. There's just sin-repent-repeat.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
This person was looking for answers about consistency not a theology. many churches, groups, pastors try to get consistency without the right cause for that effect. They need to lift up Christ and his Gospel. That is what draws men to him and purifies them.

When God is made out to be an alternative happiness or a provider of conveniences, there is no respect for him, there is no awe, there is bowing to him, there is no honor. There's just sin-repent-repeat.

speak for yourself - planman
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
This person was looking for answers about consistency not a theology. many churches, groups, pastors try to get consistency without the right cause for that effect. They need to lift up Christ and his Gospel. That is what draws men to him and purifies them.

When God is made out to be an alternative happiness or a provider of conveniences, there is no respect for him, there is no awe, there is bowing to him, there is no honor. There's just sin-repent-repeat.

speak for yourself - planman


this person has a name and a username Brother Vinny - he is seeking that which will save him - it's 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV -

Ephesians 2:5-6 KJV - Ephesians 3:1-2 KJV - Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV -


Ephesians 3:7 KJV - Colossians 1:25 KJV -

has anyone stopped sinning ? we try not to by the Armour of God -

Ephesians 6:11-18 KJV -
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
???
He says he wonders if there is anything else but sin-repent-repeat. Has nothing to do with MADness.

the here and now and the solution to sin repent repeat is God's Word. it's not a club or a magic pill. it's by UNDERSTANDING what is written, not reading it and thinking 'i get it, that makes sense but it didn't change my life'

it's faith and then things change Romans 10:17 KJV -
vinny isn't doomed

Vin, you are not doomed to sin repent repeat. Jesus paid the debt, now as far as a big change, a noticeable positive difference in your life, i truly believe if you understand the NT it changes attitudes and lives.
 

Danoh

New member
Hello, all.

As with all things here, this will likely evolve into a debate (and maybe that's a good thing), but it is not my primary intention here. Without ado: I am looking for a home.

I don't have time (nor does Knight have the bandwidth, I think) to chronicle my spiritual wanderings within (and sometimes without) the scope of orthodox Christianity. I'm 45, have been a believer for 22 years, and I'm frustrated, and feeling not a little despair because a core presupposition of the gospel is that Christ changes the believer and my experience with other believers (and with myself) is that people do not change--that they continue to act in ways which produce positive stimuli even though they know and believe that they should do and say things more in keeping with the character of Christ.

I'm not looking for a church home, per se; I'm sporadically attending one I believe to be biblically-based, and will continue doing so unless I am convinced it is in grave error.

I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?

This message addresses your very issue exactly; and all the way through to when its screen goes black:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY4dyRdvcDc

It relates how to think such things through, much more than what to think.

Couldn't agree more. Enjoy.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?
There is no salvation outside the church so find one and covenant with it as a submitting member, not just "attend sporadically". The church is the indispensable ark of salvation. No one can have God for his Father without having the church as his mother.

Spoiler

WCF Chapter 25

Section 2
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; (1 Cor. 1:2, 1 Cor. 12:12-13, Ps. 2:8, Rev. 7:9, Rom. 15:9-12) and of their children: (1 Cor. 7:14, Acts 2:39, Ezek. 16:20-21, Rom. 11:16, Gen. 3:15, Gen. 17:7) and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, (Matt. 13:47, Isa. 9:7) the house and family of God, (Eph. 2:19, Eph. 3:15) out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation. (Acts 2:47)​

When "church" is used we must define terms.

The visible church has an ideal quality to it, meaning that if it were possible it would perfectly represent the true church, which contains only saints. So, the statement extra ecclesiam nulla salus is speaking principally of of the true church, of whom Christ our Lord is the head.

Wherever He is the true Lord, there is the one and only place of salvation, and all believers are permanent citizens of that kingdom. Clearly, then, outside of that church, there is no salvation, inside that church there is all salvation.

The WCF, from which a portion is quoted above, was written in a period of Protestant church stability and establishment. For the writers of the WCF the visible church was to be formed and governed by this very Creed--extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Hence, it was important that the writers add the word "ordinary," which is not so as to imply or proclaim that there is any other Way of salvation, but to affirm that the earthly church is not in fact the true church.

There is a sacramental connection between the church militant and triumphant, but one is the Sign, the other the thing Signified. The WCF statement above warns those who forsake the visible church that they do so at their peril. Where else will one find the Gospel but in the church?

The Belgic Confession states similarly to the WCF:

Article XXVIII
Every One Is Bound to Join Himself to the True Church

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and outside of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them.​

To which, J. Van Bruggen, The Church Says Amen: An Exposition of the Belgic Confession, p. 163, explains:

"This article says that there is no salvation outside of the Church, and it is of paramount importance to understand this correctly. It does not say that no one shall be saved outside the Church, nor does it say that there is no saved person outside the Church; rather, salvation is not outside of her. Salvation is what God gives to His Church. That is why we must seek it there and not anywhere outside of the Church. Neither does this article say anywhere that whoever withdraws himself from the Church cannot be saved, but rather that this is "contrary to the ordinance of God."​

By the way, just about any of these will do for starters:

http://www.naparc.org/member-churches/

;)

AMR
 

Danoh

New member
There is no salvation outside the church so find one and covenant with it as a submitting member, not just "attend sporadically". The church is the indispensable ark of salvation. No one can have God for his Father without having the church as his mother.

Spoiler

WCF Chapter 25

Section 2
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; (1 Cor. 1:2, 1 Cor. 12:12-13, Ps. 2:8, Rev. 7:9, Rom. 15:9-12) and of their children: (1 Cor. 7:14, Acts 2:39, Ezek. 16:20-21, Rom. 11:16, Gen. 3:15, Gen. 17:7) and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, (Matt. 13:47, Isa. 9:7) the house and family of God, (Eph. 2:19, Eph. 3:15) out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation. (Acts 2:47)​

When "church" is used we must define terms.

The visible church has an ideal quality to it, meaning that if it were possible it would perfectly represent the true church, which contains only saints. So, the statement extra ecclesiam nulla salus is speaking principally of of the true church, of whom Christ our Lord is the head.

Wherever He is the true Lord, there is the one and only place of salvation, and all believers are permanent citizens of that kingdom. Clearly, then, outside of that church, there is no salvation, inside that church there is all salvation.

The WCF, from which a portion is quoted above, was written in a period of Protestant church stability and establishment. For the writers of the WCF the visible church was to be formed and governed by this very Creed--extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Hence, it was important that the writers add the word "ordinary," which is not so as to imply or proclaim that there is any other Way of salvation, but to affirm that the earthly church is not in fact the true church.

There is a sacramental connection between the church militant and triumphant, but one is the Sign, the other the thing Signified. The WCF statement above warns those who forsake the visible church that they do so at their peril. Where else will one find the Gospel but in the church?

The Belgic Confession states similarly to the WCF:

Article XXVIII
Every One Is Bound to Join Himself to the True Church

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and outside of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them.​

To which, J. Van Bruggen, The Church Says Amen: An Exposition of the Belgic Confession, p. 163, explains:

"This article says that there is no salvation outside of the Church, and it is of paramount importance to understand this correctly. It does not say that no one shall be saved outside the Church, nor does it say that there is no saved person outside the Church; rather, salvation is not outside of her. Salvation is what God gives to His Church. That is why we must seek it there and not anywhere outside of the Church. Neither does this article say anywhere that whoever withdraws himself from the Church cannot be saved, but rather that this is "contrary to the ordinance of God."​

By the way, just about any of these will do for starters:

http://www.naparc.org/member-churches/

;)

AMR

Hey, AMR, haven't seen much of you around here lately, hope all is well, brother.

Eph. 4:16
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
i'm not trying to toot horns but Mid Acts Dispensation or MAD members here is where it's at. where it's at is in Paul's epistles, which I began to study and saw some things my churches never mention in depth; long before i heard of TOL or MAD. I came here telling people to read Paul's letters, i found out here that I was on the right path. it's nothing MAD does except preach and teach Romans thru Philemon, although i include the entire NT and Old.

i can say that after understanding completely what Paul was told FROM CHRIST concerning grace, gentiles and the gospel of our Salvation -

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV and of course 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -

and so much more - and after understanding more and more, praise GOD, the OT and M,M,L and J made much more sense and all tied together for me spritually and mentally. you are in the right place - watch posts by :

heir
john w
Tambora
STP
musterion
glorydayz
grosnick
Danoh
Rightdivider
DanP
steko

and others i am forgetting, many many others - :patrol: btw, i'm 46 and kinda the same long story - and my location has been homeless since day 1 here. LOL - peace

Excellent post, my friend!!
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hello, all.

As with all things here, this will likely evolve into a debate (and maybe that's a good thing), but it is not my primary intention here. Without ado: I am looking for a home.

I don't have time (nor does Knight have the bandwidth, I think) to chronicle my spiritual wanderings within (and sometimes without) the scope of orthodox Christianity. I'm 45, have been a believer for 22 years, and I'm frustrated, and feeling not a little despair because a core presupposition of the gospel is that Christ changes the believer and my experience with other believers (and with myself) is that people do not change--that they continue to act in ways which produce positive stimuli even though they know and believe that they should do and say things more in keeping with the character of Christ.

I'm not looking for a church home, per se; I'm sporadically attending one I believe to be biblically-based, and will continue doing so unless I am convinced it is in grave error.

I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?

Ask, seek, knock.

When the church is full of fleshy minded people then it is the abomination of desolation and not something to seek to enter.

Where people are committed to Christ and not to the church then there is free fellowship unhindered by sectarianism.

Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Eze 34:3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
Eze 34:4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
Eze 34:7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
Eze 34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
Eze 34:13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
Eze 34:14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
Eze 34:15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 34:16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.


2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

LA
 

rougueone

New member
Hello, all.

As with all things here, this will likely evolve into a debate (and maybe that's a good thing), but it is not my primary intention here. Without ado: I am looking for a home.

I don't have time (nor does Knight have the bandwidth, I think) to chronicle my spiritual wanderings within (and sometimes without) the scope of orthodox Christianity. I'm 45, have been a believer for 22 years, and I'm frustrated, and feeling not a little despair because a core presupposition of the gospel is that Christ changes the believer and my experience with other believers (and with myself) is that people do not change--that they continue to act in ways which produce positive stimuli even though they know and believe that they should do and say things more in keeping with the character of Christ.

I'm not looking for a church home, per se; I'm sporadically attending one I believe to be biblically-based, and will continue doing so unless I am convinced it is in grave error.

I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?

A much needed topic. I have experienced the " roller-Coaster" of sin and repentance many times in my life. In this moment I cannot engage the topic. But will follow along.
 

rougueone

New member
There is no salvation outside the church so find one and covenant with it as a submitting member, not just "attend sporadically". The church is the indispensable ark of salvation. No one can have God for his Father without having the church as his mother.

Spoiler

WCF Chapter 25

Section 2
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; (1 Cor. 1:2, 1 Cor. 12:12-13, Ps. 2:8, Rev. 7:9, Rom. 15:9-12) and of their children: (1 Cor. 7:14, Acts 2:39, Ezek. 16:20-21, Rom. 11:16, Gen. 3:15, Gen. 17:7) and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, (Matt. 13:47, Isa. 9:7) the house and family of God, (Eph. 2:19, Eph. 3:15) out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation. (Acts 2:47)​

When "church" is used we must define terms.

The visible church has an ideal quality to it, meaning that if it were possible it would perfectly represent the true church, which contains only saints. So, the statement extra ecclesiam nulla salus is speaking principally of of the true church, of whom Christ our Lord is the head.

Wherever He is the true Lord, there is the one and only place of salvation, and all believers are permanent citizens of that kingdom. Clearly, then, outside of that church, there is no salvation, inside that church there is all salvation.

The WCF, from which a portion is quoted above, was written in a period of Protestant church stability and establishment. For the writers of the WCF the visible church was to be formed and governed by this very Creed--extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Hence, it was important that the writers add the word "ordinary," which is not so as to imply or proclaim that there is any other Way of salvation, but to affirm that the earthly church is not in fact the true church.

There is a sacramental connection between the church militant and triumphant, but one is the Sign, the other the thing Signified. The WCF statement above warns those who forsake the visible church that they do so at their peril. Where else will one find the Gospel but in the church?

The Belgic Confession states similarly to the WCF:

Article XXVIII
Every One Is Bound to Join Himself to the True Church

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and outside of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them.​

To which, J. Van Bruggen, The Church Says Amen: An Exposition of the Belgic Confession, p. 163, explains:

"This article says that there is no salvation outside of the Church, and it is of paramount importance to understand this correctly. It does not say that no one shall be saved outside the Church, nor does it say that there is no saved person outside the Church; rather, salvation is not outside of her. Salvation is what God gives to His Church. That is why we must seek it there and not anywhere outside of the Church. Neither does this article say anywhere that whoever withdraws himself from the Church cannot be saved, but rather that this is "contrary to the ordinance of God."​

By the way, just about any of these will do for starters:

http://www.naparc.org/member-churches/

;)

AMR

Good to hear from you brother. It has been too long.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Hello, all.

As with all things here, this will likely evolve into a debate (and maybe that's a good thing), but it is not my primary intention here. Without ado: I am looking for a home.

I don't have time (nor does Knight have the bandwidth, I think) to chronicle my spiritual wanderings within (and sometimes without) the scope of orthodox Christianity. I'm 45, have been a believer for 22 years, and I'm frustrated, and feeling not a little despair because a core presupposition of the gospel is that Christ changes the believer and my experience with other believers (and with myself) is that people do not change--that they continue to act in ways which produce positive stimuli even though they know and believe that they should do and say things more in keeping with the character of Christ.

I'm not looking for a church home, per se; I'm sporadically attending one I believe to be biblically-based, and will continue doing so unless I am convinced it is in grave error.

I am seeking that which will save me--not just the salvation I know is secured for me when I die, but that which will transform me in the here-and-now. Does such a thing exist? Or am I doomed to the cycle of sin-repent-repeat until I die?

Sounds like you want to have an abundance of depth of living the truth, being rooted and grounded in love, having the eyes of your understanding being enlightened that you might know the hope of your calling and what the inheritance in the saints is all about and what the exceeding greatness is of His power to those who believe

Sounds like you do not want to play at being a Christian anymore, but want the meat of the word in abundance.

Sounds like you want to walk as he walk, to walk in the light as He is light.

Sounds like you want to grow up into him in all things who is the head, even Christ. Ephesians 4:15

Is that some of what you want? God, your heavenly Father, has that to offer and so much more to those who choose to live the life of a disciple

John 10:10,14:6
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
homeless in theology

think I am going to love this thread
it has so many possibilities

the church, a few years back, started the 'come home' campaign for fallen away catholics

so
what is home to you theologically?

isn't it a body of knowledge that you can live with?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
homeless in theology

think I am going to love this thread
it has so many possibilities

the church, a few years back, started the 'come home' campaign for fallen away catholics

so
what is home to you theologically?

isn't it a body of knowledge that you can live with?

Chrysostam is Lovin' it ~
 
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