ECT Is God's favor conditioned upon anything?

Cross Reference

New member
I ask about His favor, however, can it not be applied to His love?

After all, He did come to redeem only those He 'favored' and not those He didn't 'favor'..

What does the word "favor" mean?
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I ask about His favor, however, can it not be applied to His love?
The word "favor" is not found in the King James Bible.

The Websters 1828 dictionary defines it as such:

1. Kind regard; kindness; countenance; propitious aspect; friendly disposition.

2. Support; defense; vindication; or disposition to aid, befriend, support, promote or justify. To be in favor of a measure, is to have a disposition or inclination to support it or carry it into effect. To be in favor or a party, is to be disposed or inclined to support it, to justify its proceedings, and to promote its interests.

3. A kind act or office; kindness done or granted; benevolence shown by word or deed; any act of grace or good will, as distinguished from acts of justice or renumeration. To pardon the guilty is a favor; to punish them is an act of justice.


So, if you want to discuss God's kindness, I suggest you look at this!


Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
 

Cross Reference

New member
The word "favor" is not found in the King James Bible.

The Websters 1828 dictionary defines it as such:

1. Kind regard; kindness; countenance; propitious aspect; friendly disposition.

2. Support; defense; vindication; or disposition to aid, befriend, support, promote or justify. To be in favor of a measure, is to have a disposition or inclination to support it or carry it into effect. To be in favor or a party, is to be disposed or inclined to support it, to justify its proceedings, and to promote its interests.

3. A kind act or office; kindness done or granted; benevolence shown by word or deed; any act of grace or good will, as distinguished from acts of justice or renumeration. To pardon the guilty is a favor; to punish them is an act of justice.


So, if you want to discuss God's kindness, I suggest you look at this!


Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

So what is your point, if favor isn't kindnesses?
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Everything in the bible is based on "IF".
YOUR A CHRISTIAN IF? A HYPOCRITE IF NOT. FAVOR IS BASED ON IF. EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE IS BASED ON IF

Heb 3:5-6
5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward,
6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
I Jn 5:14
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.
Rom 6:7-10
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Heb 3:6
6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
John 8:31
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
John 15:7
7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
Eph 4:21
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
I Jn 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
I Jn 2:24
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
John 15:10-14
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11 "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
I Jn 2:28-29
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I Jn 2:3
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
I Jn 2:5
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
Mark 9:23
23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
Mark 8:34-35
34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, "Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
35 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
John 13:37-38
37 Peter said to Him, "Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake."
38 Jesus answered him, "Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times.
Matt 5:20
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 7:5-7
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?"
6 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
Mark 7:14-16
14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, "Hear Me, everyone, and understand:
15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
16 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!"
Mark 7:21-23
21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 "thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
23 "All these evil things come from within and defile a man."
Rom 4:14
14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,
2 Cor 5:3
3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.
Eph 4:21
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Col 1:23
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
1 Pet 2:3
3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
Gal 6:7
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
Matt 12:33-34
33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Matt 12:36-37
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
I Jn 4:2
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
I Jn 4:15
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
(NKJ)
xxx There are many If's in the bible. And they are all important. Confess means to agree fully. If you agree fully that Jesus is the Son of God then God abides in you. If you believe that Jesus is someone other than the Son of God then you cant confess . If you think Jesus is God then you cant confess. If you say you have salvation and dont keep the commandments the bible says thats a lie.

I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(NKJ)
I Jn 2:3
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
(NKJ)
Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:24-25
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 15:1-2

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
(KJV)


2 Cor 5:17
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
(NKJ)

Rom 6:5
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
(NKJ)

2 Pet 1:5-10
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
(NKJ)
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
I ask about His favor, however, can it not be applied to His love?

After all, He did come to redeem only those He 'favored' and not those He didn't 'favor'..

What does the word "favor" mean?

From the perspective of man? True humility. I qualify that because there is humility that comes of man's own making (and is not really true humility). The humility God seeks often only comes after difficult dealings God puts us through. So in some sense, His bruising and breaking is His favor...

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:17

The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psalm 34:18

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 57:15

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Isaiah 66:2
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
When God Wants A Man
(Anonymous)

When God wants to drill a man and thrill a man and skill a man...
When God wants to mold a man to play the noblest part;
When He yearns with all His heart to create so great and bold a man that all the world shall praise...
Watch His methods;
Watch His ways!

How He ruthlessly perfects whom He royally elects...
How He hammers him and hurts him,
And with mighty blows converts him
Into frail shapes of clay that only God understands. How his tortured heart is crying and he lifts beseeching hands...
How he bends but never breaks when His good he undertakes.
How He uses whom He chooses...with every purpose fuses him;
By every art induces him to try His splendor out...
God knows what He's about!

When God wants to take a man and shake a man and wake a man...
When God wants to make a man to do the future's will;
He tries with all His skill...
When He yearns with all His soul to create him large and whole...
With what cunning He prepares him...
How He goads and never spares him! How He whets him and He frets him and in poverty begets him...
How often He disappoints whom He sacredly anoints!
With what wisdom He will hide him;
Never minding what betide him...
Though his genius sob with slighting and his pride may not forget;
Bids him struggle harder yet!
Makes him lonely so that only God's high messages shall reach him...
So that He may surely teach him what the hierarchy planned;
And though he may not understand...
Gives him passions to command.
How remorselessly He spurs him...
With terrific ardor stirs him
When He poignantly prefers him.

When God wants to name a man and fame a man and tame a man...
When God wants to shame a man to do His Heavenly best;
When He tries the highest test that His reckoning may bring...
When He wants a [god] or king;
How He reins him and restrains him so his body scarce contains him...
While He fires him and inspires him…
Keeps him yearning, ever burning for that tantalizing goal.
Lures and lacerates his soul...
Sets a challenge for his spirit;
Draws it highest then he's near it!
Makes a jungle that he clear it;
Makes a desert that he fear it...and subdue it, if he can -
So doth God make a man!

Then
To test his spirit's wrath
Throw a mountain in his path;
Puts a bitter choice before him and relentlessly stands o'er him...
Climb or perish, so He says...
But, watch His purpose, watch His ways.
God's plan is wondrous kind - could we understand His mind?
Fools are they who call His blind!

When his feet are torn and bleeding;
Yet his spirit mounts unheeding...
Blazing newer paths and finds;
When the Force that is Divine leaps to challenge every failure,
And His ardour still is sweet -
And love and hope are burning in the presence of defeat!

Lo the crisis, Lo the shouts that would call the leader out...
When the people need salvation doth he rise to lead the nation;
Then doth God show His plan...
And the world has found a man!
 

Cross Reference

New member
From the perspective of man? True humility. I qualify that because there is humility that comes of man's own making (and is not really true humility). The humility God seeks often only comes after difficult dealings God puts us through. So in some sense, His bruising and breaking is His favor...

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psalm 51:17

The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psalm 34:18


For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 57:15

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Isaiah 66:2

Atheist' have broken hearts, so do wicked people.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Not like that they don't...

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2 Corinthians 7:10

We're not talking about salvation. How come that is so difficult to get across? Why must all be about salvation which finding God's favor isn't implying?
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
We're not talking about salvation. How come that is so difficult to get across? Why must all be about salvation which finding God's favor isn't implying?

You mentioned atheists and wicked people. Why wouldn't this be about salvation (at least to them)?

EDIT : I will, however, grant that the overflow of blessings God to His people can extend to those who don't believe. I see the US and the British Empire as an example of this (though now I would say that blessing has largely passed or is passing). Those who reap the benefits of liberty but are themselves the servants of sin did nothing to merit God's blessing. But then neither did those who are His. And is His blessing the same thing as his favor?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Grace has been defined as God' unmerited favor.

If that is a definition that is workable, which I believe it is, then God's grace or favor is unmerited.

Grace is not works related, it is a gift.

If it was works related, it would not be grace, but wages.

Romans 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 

Cross Reference

New member
God's favor, then, extends (I would say) to those that are His.

Who were they in the OT whose consciences reflected their faith in there being a God to whom they gave homage for the prosperity in their livelihoods? In this, I am not referring to animal sacrifices but fear of God _ which the beginning of wisdom.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
God's favor, then, extends (I would say) to those that are His.

He gives rain to the good and evil and loved me while I was dead in sin. It is written that He does not show partiality.

Do you believe any person can become His through faith? I do.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Who were they in the OT whose consciences reflected their faith in there being a God to whom they gave homage for the prosperity in their livelihoods? In this, I am not referring to animal sacrifices but fear of God _ which the beginning of wisdom.

He gives rain to the good and evil and loved me while I was dead in sin. It is written that He does not show partiality.

Do you believe any person can become His through faith? I do.

I read favor to be something more than blessing. Blessing does not imply acceptance of the person. Favor, to my mind, does.

God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Psalm 7:11

God makes the rain to fall on the righteous and the wicked. But He is still angry with the wicked every day.

And in anticipation...Cain's sacrifice was not acceptable for much deeper reasons than what the sacrifice was (i.e. produce as opposed to animals).
 

Cross Reference

New member
I read favor to be something more than blessing. Blessing does not imply acceptance of the person. Favor, to my mind, does.

God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Psalm 7:11

God makes the rain to fall on the righteous and the wicked. But He is still angry with the wicked every day.

And in anticipation...Cain's sacrifice was not acceptable for much deeper reasons than what the sacrifice was (i.e. produce as opposed to animals).

Phooee
 
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